I have several 'favorites'...and for several different reasons.....

Audix D2 is excellent for top and bottom...Crisp but not hyped...It'll take a good whack and work so no fear of the drummer hitting it...small and manuverable..for drummers who cannot or willnot provide ample room for micing their kit.

Sennheiser MD421...Tone wise it is the 'best' dynamic.It requires a bit of space and the clips are attrocious.

Beyer M422...Beautiful little super cardioid mic.It has flavor and it has a very low self noise floor.You can put it anywhere! Dont let the size of this mic fool you..it is BIG.

SM57...in pairs as described by the recorderman.'nuff said.A lot of people think you have to aim this mic DOWN at the snare to get any response.NOT SO.In a parallel setting (parallel with the head, ) it has a different tone off axis than on...more pleasing..you might need more gain, but who doesnt!

There are others, but I like dynamics and super dynamics for the snare.I never feel like they are out of my control.

I typically run with either a beyer M201 or an MD421 on top head, occasionally a 57 on bottom. Sometimes I compress the bottom mic only which can sound good.

I'm another big fan of the 421 and find that is great for any thing on the drum kit. I Almost always go through some sort of Neve/clone or API and usually start with 57 and besides doing the aim at the snare side will also try to aim from the lower snare side pointing up to the top of the rim edge. This can give a much brighter tone with less buzz/rattle in the sound. For the additional brighter tone, I might use an AKG 451/452 and/or use a hard/fast/transfomerless mic pre. If it needs more, a good dose of BBE or Aphex can be the frosting on the cake.

I have used a Sennheiser MD441 on the last few sessions, and it has surprised me on how great it sounds...lots of snap and pop. I also like my MD421-U5 and the SM57...Try the 441, it might surprise you!

audiogaff, nice comment but won´t the mic get in the way of the drummer? I am still trying to imagine this alternative placement.

I have also used aural exciters, but hihat leakage can become a nightmare. One needs to be very careful with gain. I also prefer to apply as minimal things as possible so as to not regretted at mix time.

I will look for a 441 also. Some people do like the audix mics also. The akg 418 provides a very bright snare but I have found this mic quite noisy. For live applications it is ok. It sounds fantastic on congas, where he was originally suitable for.

But guys, check the C2000B. I was relly surprised capturing a 12" medium to high pitched snare. Adding a 441 might be dream comes true, if targeting with the right top mic pre.

SM-57 at the edge of the rim facing the outer inside, and a dragonfly on the bottom angled at the rim where the 57 is placed in the middle of the snare, and of course blended in phase.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
Audiogaff, nice comment but won´t the mic get in the way of the drummer?

It could get in the way, but usually it is ok. Place the mic so that it is parallel to the bottom rim edge of the snare, 1-2 inches from touching, then start to point it up towards the top snare rim. Somewhere between the mic being parallel and tilted up you will get the brightest tone. You may want to try and mic the snare from the front of the snare or the otherside next to the floor tom to reduce leakage and the bouncing HH knee of the drummer.

As for the BBE thing, I only attempt that at mix time. A very littel goes a long way. You may also need to use sweep eq to cut real offending HH bleed.

sure. Verify the side snare mic as Fletcher suggested also.
Nice weekend!

Most important factor here is a good sounding snare and a good sounding drummer.

A dull and dark sounding snare will require quite some hi EQ and that's where the hat bleed problem is sneaking in.

A bright sounding snare like a decently tuned birch snare will not give you any problem and when you have a Sennheiser MD441 (and room for it) or a Beyer M201, you're in music heaven.

BTW, 421's are still the best tom mics.

agreed. I prefer condensers. Bright , without the need of excessive eq.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
agreed. I prefer condensers. Bright , without the need of excessive eq.

Sometimes a dynamic is a much better choice and 441's are better sounding than many condensers.

just curious but what is the frquency response of the 441?

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
just curious but what is the frquency response of the 441?

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The MD441 is probably one of the very best dynamic microphones. Very versatile too, great mic for horns. Hyper cardioid with a very nice off axis response. Bleed? almost none.

Cheers, han

I get a lot of my snare sound from my overheads..
Mics on snare. Well I like a Atm23 and use 57,421,km85 they will all sound good depending what you are after.
I have mic'd top and bottom, side, further away etc etc Really depends on the sound.
I know someone who adds a shotgun above the snare.

Pres I like my Buzz if I want clean or maybe the API or calrec.. Only just played with the neotek before I closed for rebuild. That had a certain smack to it.

yeah, a shotgun shall be pretty cool also dave.

Originally posted by Han:
Most important factor here is a good sounding snare and a good sounding drummer.

What he said!!! :)

Originally posted by Han:
BTW, 421's are still the best tom mics.

I also agree here, but I have also had some good success with Audix D2's...I find myself switching back and forth between my 421 and my D2's. My biggest problem is that I have only one 421, so I place it in-between the 2 rack toms. I has a pretty wide pickup pattern, and seems to work just fine. I really need to pick up another 421 or two!!!

Originally posted by Han:
The MD441 is probably one of the very best dynamic microphones. Very versatile too, great mic for horns. Hyper cardioid with a very nice off axis response. Bleed? almost none.

I just got my 441 about 2 months ago after borrowing a friend's for a few days. First time I tried it on a snare, I went out and bought one the very next day, it was *that* good!!!

I have been using the crap out of it (my 441) lately! This past weekend for example, I recorded a really fantastic electric guitar track using just the 441. I normally like using a dynamic on the grill like the 421 or an SM57, and then placing a LD condensor back a few feet to get some of the room ambience. This past weekend however, I was being a bit lazy as this session was dragging on forever, I was tired, and just decided to put up the 441 by itself. First time I tried it on a guitar like that! Just beautiful! Amazing actually!

Like I said, I normally go for the 421 or the 57 on electric guitars, but I thought, "What the hell" and drug out the 441...

Hehe...it's a nice mic Alecio, you need to give it a go!

I dunno why are they so expensive in here. Much more than a beta57.
Audix are getting very popular here also.

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
I dunno why are they so expensive in here. Much more than a beta57.
Audix are getting very popular here also.

Hohohoho!!! whyis the 441 so much more expensive than the 57 ??

Because......the 441 is at least a hundred times better! :D

DH

I'm glad to have six 421's and two 441's.

Another favorite dynamic mic of mine is the Beyer M88 and the M201 (which is another great snare mic)

Have you ever tried an M88 on the speaker grill?
Very tight sound and v e r y little bleed.
Great classic mic!

Another amazing mic is the Beyer M160 and M260 (ribbons) :tu:

If you go to my website and listen to 'sound fragments', rock example 2 (Silent Spring), you will hear the MD441 on heavy rock guitar. Played all at once in a small room.

Cheers, Han

I am SOOOO boring on snare.
I always come back to the same old same old.

57 pointed at where the stick hits the head - anywhere from a 30 to 45 degree angle

Beta 57 on the bottom - almost straight at the snare wires

Oh, another use for that Beyer M-88 TG
It's great close micing bass drum!

That's totally personal. I love the 57 on my snare. The sound is very musical. A mic can also be too clean :)

Originally posted by Han:

Originally posted by Alécio Costa - Brazil:
I dunno why are they so expensive in here. Much more than a beta57.
Audix are getting very popular here also.

Hohohoho!!! whyis the 441 so much more expensive than the 57 ??

Because......the 441 is at least a hundred times better! :D

If you go to my website and listen to 'sound fragments', rock example 2 (Silent Spring), you will hear the MD441 on heavy rock guitar. Played all at once in a small room.

Han...I cannot play *.OGG files on my laptop computer... will they play from Wavelab possibly? I could copy the file to the studio computer and try it there I suppose...

Originally posted by Doublehelix:

If you go to my website and listen to 'sound fragments', rock example 2 (Silent Spring), you will hear the MD441 on heavy rock guitar. Played all at once in a small room.

Han...I cannot play *.OGG files on my laptop computer... will they play from Wavelab possibly? I could copy the file to the studio computer and try it there I suppose...

DH, you can play back .ogg files with the current version(s) of winamp. It includes filters for the ogg vorbis format.

It is also possible to playback from windows media player and there are players available for the mac as well. Find more details at http://www.vorbis.com/

Peace,

Han

Thanks Han, I d/l'ed WinAmp, and listened to the song...great sounding guitars! Hehe...the 441 is really a great sounding mic...I need to pick up at least one more, and at least one more 421 while I am at it!

SM57...in pairs as described by the recorderman.'nuff said.A lot of people think you have to aim this mic DOWN at the snare to get any response.NOT SO.In a parallel setting (parallel with the head, ) it has a different tone off axis than on...more pleasing..you might need more gain, but who doesnt!

Mmmm interesting...
I'll try this when I start tracking on my next album project in Nov.

would you still have the two snare mics in opposite phase to each other?

Bubblegum :cool:

Several months ago I got a mic along with some other items on a trade. It's an AKG D1000e. It's a dynamic looking somewhat similar to an SM57. It also has a three position bass roll off switch. I put it in my closet and really never messed with it until last night. I was testing out a new kick mic and thought I might as well throw this AKG on the snare while I was at it. I was pleasantly supprised at the sounds I got. While probably not suited for every application, it has some good attributes. It worked really well on the bottom with the bass rolloff switch to max giving a nice sizzle and little bleed from the kick. On top it had less low endand low mids than the 57 or 421 even in the lowest bass roloff position. It sounded OK by it's self on top but better when blended with a 57 or 421. It really added a nice Snap/crack/pop to the top end. I think eBay is about the only place to pick up one of these mics. It's a good addition to the mic closet for cheap.

Best kept big time engineers secret. Beyer N201 on top and a 451L on the bottom. I also like to use the ATM Pro 35 on the bottom. These little clip on condenser mics sound great and are just so handy.

for the plugin users, attention!!!
As you start inserting RTAs/TDM plugs ( whose delay you can monitor), check phase before and after every insert procedure. There were situations that the phase inverted bottom mic track had to go back to the original phase.

I'v e owned a couple D1000's and I always found they worked well on a set of very heavy hihats...

Originally posted by Bubblegum:

SM57...in pairs as described by the recorderman.'nuff said.A lot of people think you have to aim this mic DOWN at the snare to get any response.NOT SO.In a parallel setting (parallel with the head, ) it has a different tone off axis than on...more pleasing..you might need more gain, but who doesnt!

Mmmm interesting...
I'll try this when I start tracking on my next album project in Nov.

would you still have the two snare mics in opposite phase to each other?

Bubblegum :cool:

yes...but listen. Often I'll reverse polarity on all the top mics, leaving the bottom ones as absolute positive polarity...except when I've a IBP in chain...then I find the sweet phase spot.

I'm dealing with small bands and every kind of musician that doesn't know what he/she wants. Sometimes in pop-rock-metal, I like (have) to get two (or more) very different sounds from the top and bottom of the snare, so I can blend them freely later on mix. A darker "bon !" ;) from the top of the snare and a brighter "spassh !" :roll: from the bottom; so, depending on snare and drummer kind, I'm gonna choose mics (and pres) that keep this difference big enough. sm57 + spl goldmike on top, akg 414 + amek 9098 on bottom as an example

Sounds obvious... or stupid...ehr...

By the way, what pres do you match with the mics you wrote about?

Cheers!

RecorderMan....

Thanks for your advice, I'll try this.

When you say top mics, I assume you mean everything except kick and bottom of snare?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm about to produce my own band's album and I'm gonna spend serious time & energy getting the drums perfectly balanced.

I have just got a FATSO processor and I don't know which mics to send through it whilst tracking.

So, any ideas anyone?

Here is my setup and poss. track allocation.

I have:
8 channels of CLM Dynamics DB8000s
4 Channels of TLA 5001 Ivory tube.
2 Channels of SPL GoldMike tube.
Into DIGI 001.
Budget drum mic set (yoga & Soundlux actually very good mics!)
Red5Audio valve & multipattern Large Diaphragms (Check them out... [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.red5audi…"]Red5Audio[/]="http://www.red5audi…"]Red5Audio[/]

Poss tracking setup:
Kick - SPL Goldmike - FATSO
Snare Top - SPL Goldmike - FATSO
Snare bottom - CLM DB8000s
Rack Tom - CLM
Floor Tom - CLM
OH L - CLM
OH R - CLM (both using Recorderman's OH technique)
Front of Kit (mono, Omni) - CLM

The music style is contemporary Rock and I have a fair bit of experience, but there is no such thing as knowing evrything, so anyone's contribution is most welcome.

All this equipment is new, so I haven't used it all to it's full potential yet!

My intention is for this album to be the best self financed debut to come out of the UK. With the help and advice from you good people here at RO, this is a certainty!!

Bubblegum.