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Looking to get some help regarding my setup. I currently have an HD24XR, the digital outs are connected to the digital ins of the RME and so are the Ins. Total Mix controls the RME. I want to be able to record onto the hd24. When its full. transfer the tracks to reaper and mix.
Issues I have.
The RME Fireface 800 has only 16 digital ins and outs but the HD24 has 24 digital ins and outs.
Right now I have 17 to 24 analog outs to the 8 analog ins of the RME to monitor.

How do I monitor the HD24. How do I lock the HD24 to Reaper, to a song, so that they both play and I can record on the HD 24. Its getting a little confusing with total mix, but it seems that's where the answers may be, however I have been unsuccessful. Any help would be appreciated

Comments

phantomvintageclosed Wed, 02/25/2015 - 13:52

Actually no Chris, Im in the studio. Under most circumstances most would ask why not go straight through the fireface? Well I do sometimes, straight in. Im not a techy per say and I remember being the most productive and getting the most recording done with the HD24. Why? Because it behaves like a tape machine. Stop Play Record. Hit track 1 record. Next. etc etc. I just recently put the HD24XR back into my sytem. Also this HD24XR has been modified. Fans, Convertors and a bunch of other stuff. I was completely in shock when I did some exact recordings, and the HD24XR won over the Fireface. Im still shaking my head. But I cant ignore it. It must be the mods. So I want to record into the HD24XR and then transfer everything over when its mix time. There are some issues Im not familiar how to get around. Like time? Click track on the HD24, and properly monitoring during recording and playback.

anonymous Wed, 02/25/2015 - 13:56

If you are using this all together, you need the HD24XR to be the master clock then, because that is partly why it must sound better. The FF800 therefore must be the slave but still somehow allow you to sync Reaper to the HD24XR. So you are basically needing the FF800 to be the monitor/ bridge for you to connect Reaper and the HD24XR together. Am I correct?

phantomvintageclosed Wed, 02/25/2015 - 13:57

Chris, post: 425472, member: 1 wrote: If you are using this all together, you need the HD24XR to be the master clock then, because that is partly why it must sound better. The FF800 therefore must be the slave but still somehow allow you to sync Reaper to the HD24XR. So you are basically needing the FF800 to be the monitor/ bridge for you to connect Reaper and the HD24XR together. Am I correct?

Yes thats correct, and Im glad you see this so easy. Its a different language for me.

anonymous Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:04

Kurt, others here have the answers on the HD24XR but until they arrive, the short listing we've covered is helpful.

Without question, you need to keep the HD24XR as you main tracking device and forget about the FF800 until mix time. I do not like mixing clocks but thats just me.
If you can just drop all the audio off the HD24XR into Reaper, this would be so simple. FF800 is excellent for everything after.

I'll back out here now, the rest of the group will have the answers. Good luck.

phantomvintageclosed Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:05

Chris, post: 425476, member: 1 wrote: Kurt, others here have the answers on the HD24XR but until they arrive, the short listing we've covered is helpful.

Without question, you need to keep the HD24XR as you main tracking device and forget about the FF800 until mix time. I do not like mixing clocks but thats just me.
If you can just drop all the audio off the HD24XR into Reaper, this would be so simple. FF800 is excellent for everything after.

I'll back out here now, the rest of the group will have the answers. Good luck.

Thanks so much Chris

phantomvintageclosed Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:08

Chris, post: 425480, member: 1 wrote: I wouldn't go there. Midi clock is hit or miss. But Reaper is awesome for clocking so you have a good possibility this will work on sync but if it were me, i would be 100% focused on how to get the zero'd tracks into the DAW without midi.

Chris the HD 24 has removable drives I connect to my computer and copy over all the tracks them just import into Reaper

anonymous Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:09

Kurt Foster, post: 425479, member: 7836 wrote: ANY adat device carries sync through the fiber optic cable. there is no reason to hook up the word clock unless you are using it as a master clock.

The reason the HD24XR sounds better is partly due to the clock. I would be using it as the MC for certain. So he has an issue between Reaper and FF800 syncing to a device that isn't the MC for the sync. Its why he's having a problem here. Am I correct?

KurtFoster Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:10

unless there's a need to sync after transfer from the hd24 you don't even need to lock the adat to Reaper ... you get digital sync through the fiber optic connection.

i would be very surprised if the Master Clock in the ADAT machine is superior to the RME.

clocking is a different issue than sync in this case. i think we should concentrate on getting thhe transfer done and if or not we need to sync the ADAT to the RME first. we can get to clocking after that ...... ????

anonymous Wed, 02/25/2015 - 14:11

phantomvintagegear, post: 425481, member: 40493 wrote: Chris the HD 24 has removable drives I connect to my computer and copy over all the tracks them just import into Reaper

Do that! Forget anything more on bringing the FF800 into this tracking equation. Track to the HD24XR, drop the audio into Reaper, Zero them and get on with mixing using the FF800 to monitor. Done. .

phantomvintageclosed Wed, 02/25/2015 - 15:14

Kurt Foster, post: 425486, member: 7836 wrote: the ADAT doesn't write WAVE files ..... it's a proprietary type (ADAT/FST™ -File Streaming Technology). by ALESIS that needs to be converted by a special interface before it can be transferred or played in a DAW. transfers via ETHERNET connection is possible.

As I said my HD24 was modified so it actually has SATA drives. If I remember correctly there is a software that can transfer . I did it through the fireport in the old days. So if Im just gonna work on recording on the HD24, So if I do that, I still need to send my mics into the RME. I still need to monitor recording and recorded tracks through Total Mix. the patch bay in Total Mix has me stumped to get it right. Again I need to monitor through lightpipe using total mix

anonymous Thu, 02/26/2015 - 07:43

Thinking about this, its a bit of a cluster, but if the HD24 is this sweet I think you should forget about syncing the HD24 all together and think of it as a stand alone device. Track into it, (like you are and from what it sounds like already), send what monitoring you need out of the HD24 into the FF800. Clock the FF800 to your DAW and focus on getting those two devices working.

You really need to become familiar with how FF800 works. Once you get that sorted, the HD24 will fit into this like butter. Your problem has been trying to clock the HD to your DAW.

Also, do more research on uncoupled hybrid systems.

Boswell Thu, 02/26/2015 - 08:22

phantomvintagegear, post: 425461, member: 40493 wrote: Looking to get some help regarding my setup. I currently have an HD24XR, the digital outs are connected to the digital ins of the RME and so are the Ins. Total Mix controls the RME. I want to be able to record onto the hd24. When its full. transfer the tracks to reaper and mix.
Issues I have.
The RME Fireface 800 has only 16 digital ins and outs but the HD24 has 24 digital ins and outs.
Right now I have 17 to 24 analog outs to the 8 analog ins of the RME to monitor.

How do I monitor the HD24. How do I lock the HD24 to Reaper, to a song, so that they both play and I can record on the HD 24. Its getting a little confusing with total mix, but it seems that's where the answers may be, however I have been unsuccessful. Any help would be appreciated

You have to separate your thinking on the way to record and the way to replay (for mixing). Let's take the recording first.

You don't say whether you need to use the four FF800 microphone pre-amps during your recording or whether you have enough (24?) external pre-amps that can feed the analog inputs of the HD24 separately from the FF800. Assuming that you have enough external pre-amps and that you need the FF800 only to generate a monitor mix on 24 outputs from the HD24, you were correct in doing the simplest thing in using 2 ADAT lightpipes (giving 16 channels at 44.1 or 48KHz sampling rates) plus 8 TRS leads for the remaining channels. This allows you to use the RME TotalMix to generate a stereo headphone monitor mix from all the input channels (and any effects or other outputs from the computer), whether they are all mono or whether some pairs are to be taken as L-R stereo. I'll come back to TotalMix later.

One very important point is that if you are using 44.1 (or 88.2) KHz sampling, you should use the HD24 with external clock, as the HD24 internal clock runs slightly fast at those two speeds. To use external clock, run a 75 Ohm coax lead from the Wordclock out on the FF800 to a 75 Ohm T-piece on the Wordclock in on the HD24 rear panel, placing a 75 Ohm terminator on the other end of the T-piece. Set the clock source on the HD24 front panel to "Wordclock". Even if you are using 48 (or 96) KHz, it's no bad thing to use external clock from the FF800 as it is marginally more stable than the HD24 internal clock. You don't need any clock locking to the computer. Setting it up this way gives you high-quality recording direct to an HD24 disk drive with headphone (or loudspeaker) monitoring.

For mixing, the route you take depends on how you want to mix. If you want to be totally in the box (i.e. using a DAW), then the best step is to transfer the files from the HD24 to the computer hard drive and mix from there as though they had been recorded using the computer. Since you use an FF800, your computer will have FireWire ports, so the easiest way of doing the file transfer is to get either the Alesis FirePort or the Vipower equivalent and plug the HD24 caddy into that. You then use either the Alesis FST/Connect transfer program or the third-party HD24tools to transfer the tracks of all the songs at high speed. Note that it makes no difference whether you are using IDE or SATA drives inside your caddies as the only connection you make is to the proprietary connector on the rear of the caddy. Once you have transferred your tracks, mix to taste. FST/Connect will work only with FireWire, but there are alternative Vipower interfaces to USB that HD24Tools can use. There are links on the Alesis website to HD24Tools.

If you want to mix in analog, take the 24 analog outputs from the HD24XR into your analog mixer and then use two line inputs on your FF800 for capture of the stereo mix output from the mixer back into the computer. As it happens, this is how I perform the majority of my mixes.

Finally, the question of TotalMix. It's a very powerful tool for routing and mixing inside the FF800, but takes a bit of learning. There is a new version (handily named [="http://www.rme-audio.de/en/index.php"]TotalMix FX 4 All[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]TotalMix FX 4 All[/]) which I have not used, so I'm referring only to the original version. Rather than go through all the features and methods in this post, I refer you to a couple of [[url=http://="

"]YouTube tutorials[/]="

"]YouTube tutorials[/]. I suggest that you go though these and then come back to us for help on parts you are having trouble with in relation to your particular usage.

phantomvintageclosed Sun, 03/01/2015 - 09:52

Chris, post: 425499, member: 1 wrote: Thinking about this, its a bit of a cluster, but if the HD24 is this sweet I think you should forget about syncing the HD24 all together and think of it as a stand alone device. Track into it, (like you are and from what it sounds like already), send what monitoring you need out of the HD24 into the FF800. Clock the FF800 to your DAW and focus on getting those two devices working.

You really need to become familiar with how FF800 works. Once you get that sorted, the HD24 will fit into this like butter. Your problem has been trying to clock the HD to your DAW.

Also, do more research on uncoupled hybrid systems.

Thanks Chris very much appreciated. Will do.

phantomvintageclosed Sun, 03/01/2015 - 10:20

Boswell, post: 425500, member: 29034 wrote: You have to separate your thinking on the way to record and the way to replay (for mixing). Let's take the recording first.

You don't say whether you need to use the four FF800 microphone pre-amps during your recording or whether you have enough (24?) external pre-amps that can feed the analog inputs of the HD24 separately from the FF800. Assuming that you have enough external pre-amps and that you need the FF800 only to generate a monitor mix on 24 outputs from the HD24, you were correct in doing the simplest thing in using 2 ADAT lightpipes (giving 16 channels at 44.1 or 48KHz sampling rates) plus 8 TRS leads for the remaining channels. This allows you to use the RME TotalMix to generate a stereo headphone monitor mix from all the input channels (and any effects or other outputs from the computer), whether they are all mono or whether some pairs are to be taken as L-R stereo. I'll come back to TotalMix later.

One very important point is that if you are using 44.1 (or 88.2) KHz sampling, you should use the HD24 with external clock, as the HD24 internal clock runs slightly fast at those two speeds. To use external clock, run a 75 Ohm coax lead from the Wordclock out on the FF800 to a 75 Ohm T-piece on the Wordclock in on the HD24 rear panel, placing a 75 Ohm terminator on the other end of the T-piece. Set the clock source on the HD24 front panel to "Wordclock". Even if you are using 48 (or 96) KHz, it's no bad thing to use external clock from the FF800 as it is marginally more stable than the HD24 internal clock. You don't need any clock locking to the computer. Setting it up this way gives you high-quality recording direct to an HD24 disk drive with headphone (or loudspeaker) monitoring.

For mixing, the route you take depends on how you want to mix. If you want to be totally in the box (i.e. using a DAW), then the best step is to transfer the files from the HD24 to the computer hard drive and mix from there as though they had been recorded using the computer. Since you use an FF800, your computer will have FireWire ports, so the easiest way of doing the file transfer is to get either the Alesis FirePort or the Vipower equivalent and plug the HD24 caddy into that. You then use either the Alesis FST/Connect transfer program or the third-party HD24tools to transfer the tracks of all the songs at high speed. Note that it makes no difference whether you are using IDE or SATA drives inside your caddies as the only connection you make is to the proprietary connector on the rear of the caddy. Once you have transferred your tracks, mix to taste. FST/Connect will work only with FireWire, but there are alternative Vipower interfaces to USB that HD24Tools can use. There are links on the Alesis website to HD24Tools.

If you want to mix in analog, take the 24 analog outputs from the HD24XR into your analog mixer and then use two line inputs on your FF800 for capture of the stereo mix output from the mixer back into the computer. As it happens, this is how I perform the majority of my mixes.

Finally, the question of TotalMix. It's a very powerful tool for routing and mixing inside the FF800, but takes a bit of learning. There is a new version (handily named [="http://www.rme-audio.de/en/index.php"]TotalMix FX 4 All[/]="http://www.rme-audi…"]TotalMix FX 4 All[/]) which I have not used, so I'm referring only to the original version. Rather than go through all the features and methods in this post, I refer you to a couple of [[url=http://="

"]YouTube tutorials[/]="

"]YouTube tutorials[/]. I suggest that you go though these and then come back to us for help on parts you are having trouble with in relation to your particular usage.

Boswell, Wow. Information I have been receiving is invaluable to me, and it is so greatly appreciated of what everyone has contributed. Alright so Im going over your notes and here are some answers to some of the questions. I do use the 4 mic pre's at the front of the Fireface to record to the HD 24 including the 1/4 inch input. I am monitoring tracks 1-16 through lightpipe. I have no other mixer etc, so basically total mix will be my mixer. Im not good with learning curves but getting better. I consider myself more on the creative side. However I have figured through the matrix to route the 16 channels of lightpipe to total mix to monitor. I use 9/10 on the RME to monitor. The Rme has only 16 channels of lightpipe and the HD24 has 24. So that was a dilemma too. So it seemed my only option was to connect 17/24 outs of the HD24 to the 8 Analog ins on the back of the RME to be able to monitor tracks 17-24. What I havent been able to figure out is, Can I monitor the 16 Lightpipe tracks and the 8 Analog tracks at the same time? Although I did route the 8 Outs of the RME into 17-24 Inputs of the HD24, Im not sure I will record on those 8 tracks that way. Im not sure I will get the best quality. What I thought was, record lightpipe 1-16 then transfer (I believe this is possible) or copy tracks 1 to 8 that were recorded lightpipe, to 17-24 and monitor those out of the analog outs of the HD24. this way, Im actually recording all 24 tracks digitally but monitoring 1-16 digitally and 17-24 analog. Im hoping to see if this works. All in all I will take the time to work on the Matrix and Total mix, and although it seemed like at first we wouldn't have to worry about putting reaper into the equation until I finish recording the 24 tracks and dump into reaper via Fireport etc. But! I need the click track from reaper. And need that to be set up when I dump everything. So the confusion continues for me, because it seems like I would have to set up as template in Reaper that syncs the HD24 so I can monitor the click and once the tracks are dumped into reaper tempo is correct as well as the click still being available in case I want to record into Reaper above the existing 24 tracks I have. I hope Im making sense. I only use 24bit 48 K to record. Ive done some test and to my ear sounds the best and the most musical. I hope Im starting to explain myself in a better manner. I believe I am forging forward with this finally, but still need to sort the above out.

Boswell Sun, 03/01/2015 - 14:04

Yes, using an FF800 you can generate a monitor mix from up to 28 simultaneous external inputs (10 analog, 16 lightpipe, 2 S/PDIF). Note that if you are recording using channels 1, 7 and 8 from the front panel, those channels are not usefully available as TRS line inputs on the rear panel, as the front and rear pairs of sources would be mixed into one output per pair. Front panel input channels 9 and 10 are not affected this way.

For monitoring on the FF800, with your setup you could listen to any or all of the incoming 16 lightpipe channels (taken from 2 of the 3 lightpipe outputs on the HD24) plus 5 more HD24 channels via analog inputs. It's your choice of which these 5 are depending on how you patch the TRS leads to the analog outputs of the HD24.

The inputs you use to record (4 mics plus 1 DI input) get digitised inside the FF800. It makes sense to transfer these digitally to the HD24XR to avoid a further double conversion. The only problem you would have is a logistical one of planning the track numbers so that you are not trying to overwrite already recorded material.

The click track from Reaper should not be a problem as you can incorporate DAW outputs into the monitoring mix as well.

The thing you have to get really straight is the clocking. I would use the FF800 as the clock master (since it is doing the A-D conversions) and use a BNC cable to sync the HD24, as I described in my previous post.

Keep a cool head and it will all work out!

phantomvintageclosed Sun, 03/01/2015 - 15:46

thank you Boswell Im gonna get at er. Try to work everything out. Im assuming you mean recording the click track out of reaper and on to the HD24? Clear that up for me. I also have one more piece of gear that Ive been on the fence about keeping or selling. Its the mackie universal Pro xt and extender controllers. I know this can work in reaper. can the mackie control work with midi and control the HD24 transport?

phantomvintageclosed Sun, 03/01/2015 - 15:59

Boswell, post: 425638, member: 29034 wrote: Yes, using an FF800 you can generate a monitor mix from up to 28 simultaneous external inputs (10 analog, 16 lightpipe, 2 S/PDIF). Note that if you are recording using channels 1, 7 and 8 from the front panel, those channels are not usefully available as TRS line inputs on the rear panel, as the front and rear pairs of sources would be mixed into one output per pair. Front panel input channels 9 and 10 are not affected this way.

For monitoring on the FF800, with your setup you could listen to any or all of the incoming 16 lightpipe channels (taken from 2 of the 3 lightpipe outputs on the HD24) plus 5 more HD24 channels via analog inputs. It's your choice of which these 5 are depending on how you patch the TRS leads to the analog outputs of the HD24.

The inputs you use to record (4 mics plus 1 DI input) get digitised inside the FF800. It makes sense to transfer these digitally to the HD24XR to avoid a further double conversion. The only problem you would have is a logistical one of planning the track numbers so that you are not trying to overwrite already recorded material.

The click track from Reaper should not be a problem as you can incorporate DAW outputs into the monitoring mix as well.

The thing you have to get really straight is the clocking. I would use the FF800 as the clock master (since it is doing the A-D conversions) and use a BNC cable to sync the HD24, as I described in my previous post.

Keep a cool head and it will all work out!

I suppose I could use Channels 9 and 10 to record in the front. Most of the time its one track. Oh and btw when I was talking about playing digital and analog outputs at the same time, I am aware that the FF can do this. What I was wondring is can the HD 24 play analog and digital signals at the same time

Boswell Mon, 03/02/2015 - 02:26

If you can restrict your use to inputs 9 and 10 on the FF800, then you will have available the full set of 8 line-level analog inputs on the rear panel. However, this does knock out usage of FF800 input 1 (the DI channel), so if you needed DI, you would have to think about using an external DI box feeding input 9 or 10.

The HD24 always outputs both digital (ADAT) and analog signals on all channels. The analog output is always a re-conversion of the digital output, so there is no analog-in to analog-out route that avoids a dual conversion.

When your click track arrives from Reaper into the FF800, you could use the FF800 internal routing to send it to any ADAT or analog output for recording on the HD24.

I've never been struck by the Mackie Universal controllers, but you may get them to work in a way that's useful to you. If you want HD24 transport control, you could interconnect the MIDI I/O on the FF800 and the HD24 using a couple of MIDI cables and use a Reaper MIDI track to carry out some simple automation.

phantomvintageclosed Mon, 03/02/2015 - 05:23

Ok Boswell, gotcha on the use of 9-10 inputs. Will be a decision, Ill have to make. I cant say Ive used Input 1 very much anyway. Ok finally got all 24 tracks to record and playback. I really like how fast I could transfer tracks 1 to 8, to 17 to 24. Althought 17-24 is analog, its just for monitoring whilte recording to the other tracks. Back to the click, I think your saying route it to an output to monitor, correct? So lets say I do that and record track 1. Then next day come back to record track 2, I need the click to be in sync now with the recorded track. How do I do that? Ive been on the fence about the Mackie stuff. So far I have been able to get it to work total mix, so that now I can change monitoring levels on all 24 tracks, while tracking. Havent got the transport to work. I have a Midi 8. I believe it has 8 or 9 midi ins and outs. What would be the best way to patch the FF800, The HD24, and the Mackie Control all on the midi patch bay, to utilize the feature in Reaper, HD24 and Total Mix. Once I get that going, that will really be able to tell if I will keep or sell the Mackie. What I do like is having fadars during tracking on the HD24, eliminating the use of the mouse. Boswell, let me know when you have a moment. And thank you again for guiding me down the right path.

Boswell Mon, 03/02/2015 - 08:27

What's a Mackie 24?

During tracking, you need the gain trims on the analog inputs for the record-enabled tracks available as real knob controls, not remoted or automated. If you want to play with the mix on the foldback headphones, it's up to you how you do it. Fader control via MIDI into Reaper is possible, but personally I would not try to get it to adjust the faders in TotalMix.

For the click, record it to an HD24 track during the first take of a new song, then for all subsequent tracking and punch-ins/overdubs on that song, have that HD24 track with the click in it set to replay.

phantomvintageclosed Thu, 04/02/2015 - 18:05

The journey continues with the HD24 and Reaper and the Fireface 800.
As of now I run 16 Tracks of lightpipe from the hd 24 to the rme.
I record and listen back that way through total mix.
I listen to 17 to 24 through the analog inputs. To save money on getting a raydat,
I transfer tracks 1 to 8 internally to 17 to 24, then continue recording then transfer to reaper.

I had the Mackie control, never liked it and never worked right for me.
Ive never ever bought anything Behringer, however the Xtouch looks like something I would use.
I know it will work with Reaper. In a video they sai that the compact you can switch between controlling 2 different things.

So the magic question is, can I control Reaper with the x touch and then switch over and control the HD24.
The X touch has midi and usb.

Any help would be great. I know we live in the world of option, but its killing me.
All I do is research, not record lol

Phantom

Boswell Fri, 04/03/2015 - 15:46

phantomvintagegear, post: 427504, member: 40493 wrote: I transfer tracks 1 to 8 internally to 17 to 24, then continue recording then transfer to reaper.

With a bit of careful pre-planning of track numbers, you could probably avoid having to do the transfer step by using Input Normalling on the HD24. When active, this writes input channels to more than one track. After the first take you can cancel the normalling, leaving the high-numbered versions of the first tracks in place while overwriting the low-numbered ones in the next take.

The HD24 has fairly simple MIDI control, mainly MMC (MIDI machine control) for starting and stopping the transport, and this can be made to work with external controllers. For example, the appropriate MIDI strings can be keyed into the user button memory of mixers like the Yamaha "O" series and also the A+H Zed-R16, so you can operate the HD24 from the mixing console as though it were a reel-to-reel tape machine. I would not like to speculate whether it would work with the X-Touch.

phatbeatstudio Mon, 05/18/2015 - 02:26

I used to own a HD24 and it is very easy to get your tacks into your daw.
First off the drives in your HD24 will not work if you instal them into your cpu they are formatted for the alesis only ! DO NOT PUT THEM IN YOUR CPU
What you need first is a manual. Did you know that the HD24 can literally email tracks by plugging it into the internet, its has its own IP address.
But what you will need to do is hook up the HD24 with ethernet to your cpu unless you have the HD24 firewire adapter.
Then just read the instructions in the manual. Are you tracking at 96k , does your RME input 16 tracks at 24/96
Actually if you have 24 tracks you cant be tracking at 96k because it only allows 12 tracks at 96k or 24 at 48k so I answered my own question there.
In all honestly my old HD24 did not sound as good as a basic ProTools DIGI interface.
As far as it syncing and being the master clock I don't know if it can unless reaper has the ability to receive MTC.
If you just upload the HD24 files into your cpu you will not have to worry about it any how.
But I seriously doubt that if it does sound better it is because of the clock, but it is possible.
You need the manual