So... they're serious about this, right?

I think so. I'm not surprised . I mean, VOVOX Cable, $100,000 speaker for vinyl records . Now this.:rolleyes:

I read that the other day and some of the wording used to describe what they where supposedly hear sounded like BS to me?
I do think there is a potential possibility for differences in the build quality of a drive and maybe that will reflect on what we are able to hear? But I think it could be more definitively described and document with a scope?
I know it is often difficult to definitively describe some type of mojo, but thats not the case here.

I've always thought an audio drive either gets it right or produces an error. That there really is no gray area. Or, at best wouldn't you hear a click of some kind if something was missing. It seems bazaar.

Over my head for sure but thats what I would think.

I suppose SSDs have the advantage over hard drives in that they don't have any moving parts to make noise. Beyond that, there's a whole lot of bunk in this article. You're right, Chris - bits are bits. They're either read properly or something's faulty.

'Alien' sounding is pretty creative, though, I'll say.

I am surpried that you think this is bunk Chris. I think its bunk. My understanding Chris is that you hear a slow and steady degridation in audio in Daws as you add more and more plugins even when they are on but not doing anything. Why could this happen but audio being played from different media not effect things?

This is truly a question and not meant at all to be snide. Your system of thinking is interesting to me.

Paul999, post: 423318, member: 42110 wrote: My understanding Chris is that you hear a slow and steady degridation in audio in Daws as you add more and more plugins even when they are on but not doing anything.

You are general stating something that is far from anything I've ever said quite like that. But, if you don't think cheap coded plug-ins, or DAW's that are effected by coding conflicts hold true to that at times. what can I say...
Strange comment

I am definitaly not meaning to misquote you. I was referring to a conversation we had had a while back where I tested a rediclous amount of plugins on one copy of a file and none on another and they completly nulled. I can't seem to search back far enough in threads to find it. :( I'm not meaning to attack you and maybe I've totally misunderstood what your position is.

Well the way you put it, in this topic I would have to be a moron to not be offended. But, whatever.

Paul999, post: 423322, member: 42110 wrote: I am definitaly not meaning to misquote you. I was referring to a conversation we had had a while back where I tested a rediclous amount of plugins on one copy of a file and none on another and they completly nulled. I can't seem to search back far enough in threads to find it. :( I'm not meaning to attack you and maybe I've totally misunderstood what your position is.

Regarding plugins. I'm glad for you. I suppose (if you say so) your DAW is in good working order then, but in respect to uncoupling, nulling, , ghost code, cause and effect from bad code and so on... I indeed don't think you fully understand.

the only possibility I can think of is that maybe the SSd could produce less errors due to no moving mechanical parts. But there's probably some downside to them, which I believe is a more limited number of write and re writes. I dunno I'm sure could be some technical differences, but I doubt anything would be audible, especially in a 2track playback situation.

It says of the data: "before being delivered to the hi-fi system's DAC", but has anyone mentioned clocking?

Don't hard drives incorporate low level logic that attempts to correct detected errors? Sufficient numbers of "corrected" errors might cause audible differences?

Paul999, post: 423318, member: 42110 wrote: I am surpried that you think this is bunk Chris. I think its bunk. My understanding Chris is that you hear a slow and steady degridation in audio in Daws as you add more and more plugins even when they are on but not doing anything. Why could this happen but audio being played from different media not effect things?

This is truly a question and not meant at all to be snide. Your system of thinking is interesting to me.

I said it was bunk.

audiokid, post: 423314, member: 1 wrote: 've always thought an audio drive either gets it right or produces an error. That there really is no gray area.

Yup. 1's are 1's and 0's are 0's... there is no such thing as a "brighter, more present" 1, or a hard drive that adds more "punch" or 'clarity"..
A drive stores binary data. That data is either written correctly, or, it's not and it produces nothing.

Some of these studies just make me roll my eyes... and the people who are convinced that there are things there that really aren't; like the guys who think that your video monitor makes a difference in the sound of your audio, or how tracks place towards the top of the screen in Pro Tools sound better than the ones placed towards the bottom... sigh.

I once had a guy claim that in order for a mix to glue, the drums had to be on the far left of the mixer starting with the kick. I admit, I actually like starting with the drums, bass, guitars >>> but it sure isn't about sonics. I think he saw this order back in the day and assumed it was about sonics. And so it goes...

I often think this is how the round trip started from the / Mercenary/ RAP/ RO/ PSW/ GS crowd that couldn't leave their hardware out of the Pro Tools loop. Someone thought it was smart going OTB and back to the same session, thus we've created this most ridiculous way to blend digital and analog in the same session, on the same DAW. (Round Trip > Pro Tools/ aka = Alsihad> Gear pimps and shill). I know it works but its never been logical to me.

audiokid, post: 423501, member: 1 wrote: I once had a guy claim that in order for a mix to glue, the drums had to be on the far left of the mixer starting with the kick. I admit, I actually like starting with the drums, bass, guitars >>> but it sure isn't about sonics. I think he saw this order back in the day and assumed it was about sonics. And so it goes...

that comes from the days of working on tape ... edge tracks were more susceptible slight drop outs and variations of signal strength so instruments like kick drum and bass guitar were recorded to the edge tracks.

on the other hand i knew guys who would start in the middle and work to the outside tracks.

I know he never knew why because he was referring to us doing this on Pro Tools. but, I bet this is where it came from.. Nice one Kurt!
I almost remember doing this with my 16 track for other reasons though. I always wanted the drums fatter on both sides so I'd put them in the center lanes of the tape while the less important bandwidth tracks went to the inferior lanes closest to the sides of the tape. Example 1&2 or 14/15 and 16 lane for SMPTE. But as tape degraded, I would get the odd dropout on those side lanes.

What went on the far right for you, Bass?
I stripped the sides for SMPTE but when it dropped out, I ended up using two lanes as a backup. Which was 1 or 16.

I'm glad those days are long gone.

audiokid, post: 423503, member: 1 wrote: What went on the far right for you, Bass?
I stripped the sides for SMPTE but when it dropped out, I ended up using two lanes as a backup. Which was 1 or 16.

I'm glad those days are long gone.

myself, i wish we still worked on tape but what are you gonna do? gotta accept the realities. i usually ran the last two tracks for console auto ... or smpte in which case i would sysnc an adat machine and print the auto info to it ...

i like to start with drums / kick first then snare toms o/h and hat ... my JH24 didn't have a problem on the edge tracks but some machines i have seen did.

I feel ya Kurt. Just talking about it all brings back all the good memories.

So Kurt has a new look or am I late to the game?

pan60, post: 423512, member: 40762 wrote: So Kurt has a new look or am I late to the game?

lol, I like this one better but I must admit, I've always wanted to see your real mug, Kurt! I think you had something here years back? This is very suiting for you though. A classic.

you can see my real mug on my Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/pan60

I wonder if this is why my boss put bass in ch1 then kick snare ect. The best stories are from the old days of recording. Studios seem tame these days, I haven't heard any cool modern rock and roll stories. Lol guess by the early 90s things had just gotten a little to weird lol.

eww .... too old toothless and fat to be taking pics of self.

only pics i have are at least 25 years old.

I would use edge tracks for SMPTE/auto. I also recall using a blank adjacent track as a "guard" track to prevent potential bleed-over from the audio chatter that was SMPTE, but, I also remember ending up using the guard track for recording if I needed it... Kinda taking a chance that it would be okay. Lol.
Personally, I keep all my drum tracks in Samplitude at the top because I think they sound more transparent that way. ;). I think my next purchase is going to be a set of teakwood/mahogany knobs for my Tele so I can get more sustain. Lol.

Paul999, post: 423322, member: 42110 wrote: I was referring to a conversation we had had a while back where I tested a rediclous amount of plugins on one copy of a file and none on another and they completly nulled

I really don't get all your nulling concepts you seem to be using. I do however believe plug-ins are not equal even to a point where software updates can change a perfectly good code to problematic too. Conflicts happen. Most of this is easy to hear as well.

This may be what you are referring to.
I participated in a pretty intense converter shootout with other mastering engineers. I discovered reverb on a channel that the group said wasn't there. In the standard null test they all did, no one heard it. Through a process of clinical nulling I do, where I line up the bytes as usual, adjust volumes and EQ until there is nothing left, it was clear the software used to test these converters wasn't as accurate as my manual work either. Through our discovery, the recordist came forth, recalled using reverb early on in the mix by accident , then shut it off because it wasn't to be included in this test.
No one heard it through a standard null test, but I found it. Did it matter? Well, it created a phasy sound I heard before the nulling process, that's why I kept digging. He confirmed is must have been a reaction when another plug-in was in the same session.
The story is more interesting but that's the skinny. It was a Pro Tool 10 session, I was examining it through Sequoia.
Was there a conflict between one code leaching onto something else? I dunno.
I've heard this kind of story with other people as well. Its not uncommon.

As an example of a most resent plug-in that comes to mind, the delay made by http://www.soundtoys.com/product/ is absolute garbage on Samplitude. It was really obvious this gem wasn't for me.
Now, I realize this may be subjective to my platform, who knows. But, upon loading this I heard an instant shift in the track imaging regardless of it being in bypass mode or mixed in. On or off, it was constant noise, I could never use this. The only way to deal with this gem was to delete. It may be the worst plug-in I've loaded.