Hey Munxcub, when I said they look similar, I just meant in the back :) And I guess they don't have a passive radiator back there because there is a port on the front, right? It this correct reasoning? I don't know speakers.

I have suggested several powered Yorkvilles to my clients and their mixes improved dramitically over whatever they had before...NS10's not withstanding..

Lee Tyler has a set and he likes his. He will speak of the improvement if asked.

That's what we call fairly flat.

TeeME wrote:

Here is the PDF. Yamaha NS10's are very flat in their power band response. Whoever measured a 7dB spike had a horrible room and maybe the same quality amplifer.

Notice the FQ response.

Mine in the room could connect very powerful at 55hz

Yep. notice that the freq response is almost -10db at 50 hz

Guys, don't tell me how a NS10 sounds, for I've worked with this little white bastards for 12 years now and I know them inside out.

Some say they sound horrible, I don't, but you won't hear me say they sound good. If you manage to make a mix sound good on them, it will sound good on almost any stereo, but I don't like the sound of the NS10, period.

Have a nice day.

The question is; "Do my mixes sound good when I mix with NS10s, or do NS10's make my mixes sound good.. ???" If you can't see the difference between the two, there is nothing I can do to convince you.

If you want something that will lie to you and flatter your mixes, making them sound better than they do, then something like the Macke 824 would suit you. Then you and your friends can sit around your control room saying things to each other like "Wow, listen to that low end thump", and " Hey, pass me that blunt."

But they won't tell you the truth about your music.. they will LIE to you. Your mixes will not be accurate or travel well from system to system. I personally think that waaay too many people pay waaay too much attention to super deep bass. Unless your room is large enough, all that deep low end is just creating null and peak modes giving you inaccurate sense of the lows anyhow. In many cases, home recordests are better off with speaker systems that are down 10dB @ 50 Hz.
Kurt Foster

Kurt, with all due respect, but re-read your post please.

Kurt Foster>

I am working right now on a number of soundtracks that came from the USA. There's way too much low end in these tracks and you know why? Because the guy who mixed it didn't hear how much low he was pumpin' into his mix.

This morning I was listening to a CD with works of art played by someone called Miles Davis.

This CD was 'mastered' by a 'genius' who had no idea about the low rumble he has put into his 'creation'.

It was very good to hear on a pair of IMF RSPM speakers (freq response 17hz-40khz) http://www.imf-electronics.com/RSPM/index.html

So I think you'd better hear what you're doing, in other words: you'll need a pair of main speakers or a nice sub with your NS10's.
I have a sub that I can engage with a button on the desk and that works very well. Default is sub off, but every now and then you wanna hear how much low there is.

A lot of times when a client comes into my mastering studio they are AMAZED at the low end they did not know was there. I had one group of musicians that brough me in some stuff they had recorded at home and used Auratones or NS-10s to monitor on. They were tearing down a building a couple of doors away from where the recording was being done and all you hear in the mixdown was low frequency wrecking sounds. The group said that they "never heard any of the sounds of the wrecking when they were doing the mixdown" Having wide range, neutral speakes is an asset. If you want to work on NS-10s then have something with a decent low end to listen to the final mix on before you pass it on to the mastering engineer to make sure you are aware of what you really have in the mix....a word to the wise.

I think we get it.

"Do my mixes sound good when I mix with NS10s, or do NS10's make my mixes sound good.. ???" If you can't see the difference between the two, there is nothing I can do to convince you."

I'd never slap on the NS-10's and play a mix through them to impress my clients, point being NS-10's don't sound as good as most other monitors to me and to my clients. However I do use them in the mixing process and they do help me create better mixes. I use them primarily for high end and mid frequency tweaking, never for bottom end adjustment. Regardless of the specs on these speakers, I've never liked the bottom end on my mixes when I only used the NS-10's to work with (the poorer days). I should say I never liked the bottom end when I checked out my mixes on a number of other monitors, stereo's, and boom boxes. Always to much sub bass that I wasn't able to hear on the yam's. My control room isn't the best it could be but it's golden section and well treated so I'm pretty sure its the NS-10's. Anyways it sounds like we are all saying the same things about their use in the mixing process sans specs. So thats my nickel on the subject.

Flip

Flip

I find the NS-10's are extremely useful for finding low mid mud too, not just mid and hi frequency stuff...

stuff that was ok on the mackies (dear God, I can't wait to get rid of them) sounded like ass on the NS-10's particularly in that area

Mario, bull's eye! right on target!

Low mid mud, that's where the NS10 shines, they can do a wonderful job there.

Just to play devil's avocate here for a minute...

Why monitor on a speaker where you are only hearing correctly part of the spectrum? Why not monitor on good wide range speakers that perform well and sound good and produces a good overall sound picture? The days for using Yamaha NS-10 has passed. They are no longer being made and parts are hard if not impossible to come by. The reasons to use them have also passed. Why not get a speaker that can really reproduce the whole spectrum accurately and be done with it?

What you are saying in essence is that you are looking a great masterpiece of art with a small veiwer that works great in a small spectum but only allows you to see less than 10% of the work of art. Not a good way of view art or listening to sound.

MTCW....

-TOM-

I think the point I was making got lost somewhere. I mix with NS10m's (parts are still available and I still have not found anything that works better) a pair of Auratones and a large pair of Tannoy mains ... the old school combination of monitors.

I would never make bass adjustments solely on the NS10's. I do however listen to see what the bass sounds like on them. If i were to only listen to the lows on the Tannoys, I could easily put way more bass in the mix than most speakers can handle. But my control room is fairly large. Not the typical 8 by 10 foot room with 7'.7" ceilings. In rooms that don't have very much internal volume, speakers that produce lows below 50 Hz can create more problems than they solve. If your room is properly designed and treated then sub woofers or large mains are in order but if it is a small extra bed room, I don't care how much trapping and treatments you put up, the extra lows are going to make nulls (peaks and dips in the room response). There is such a thing as too much speaker for a given area. This is all part of proper room design and one reason why you never see large speakers or sub woofers in small editing suites..

I'm currently fighting the problem of which you speak. When traveling to other systems that produce the sub lowes well, my mixes are always way too bottom heavy. I would love to have a set of monitors that don't lie to me on the low end. Any suggestions for an affordable solution?

tripnek,
It is difficult to recomend a monitor system without knowing what kind of room they are going to be placed in.. part of the equation has to do with room dimensions and treatments.. if the room is pretty small, I don't recomend anything that kicks out a ton of bass.. if the room is large enough, then IMO you need more than one set of monitors... after all the goal is to get your mix to sound good through many different types of speakers, so why not use 3 different sets to mix with? Many mix primarily on the nearfields, switching to large mains to check ultra highs and lows and down to something like Auratones to see what the mix sounds like on TVs and boombox's..

Its my belief that room size and the effect that frequencies have on that room size is driven by the volume knob.A small room is not a bad thing at volumes suitable to the size of the room.Now before everyone gets all crazy about this, I'm not talking an UNTREATED room...there will have to be compensation for some nodes...But if you are in a small room situation and you are overpowering the ability of the room to contain all the frequencies necessary for a good mix, then you are never going to have mixes that travel well....regardless of the brand of monitor or the price.A lot of guys are under the impression that a pair of the latest monitor X's in the bedroom studio is going to solve their mixing woes, so they oversaturate the area with lots of highs and lows and while it is comforting to be surrounded by sound, its not going to be the same elsewhere. I agree 100% that a small sub with a great set of nearfields in a small room will always give a better impression of the total frequency pallette.As long as you train yourself to listen at lower volumes and do even a modest amount of sound control.

As for the NS10 thingy.....they are really good at upper and lower mid clarity...this is where the punch happens anyway, and the last time I checked my frequency chart, most instruments and voices prevalent in modern rock/soul/blues/country/alternative>>>>yaddayaddayadddaetcetcetc....music falls within these frequency ranges.Its no wonder that the pros in the industry glommed onto a specific set of speakers whose strength lies within this range.

I also think they sound 'better' in a larger room environment.I dont know why but when I had a pair in a small control room everything sounded like crap and made me hate them...however, in using them years later in a larger control room area(same power amp btw) they were hard but at the same time marvelous to work on...when you got it right you could put a mix up on the bigs and rock the hell out of the place...

Cedar Flat Fats wrote: tripnek,
It is difficult to recommend a monitor system without knowing what kind of room they are going to be placed in.. part of the equation has to do with room dimensions and treatments.. if the room is pretty small, I don't recommend anything that kicks out a ton of bass.. if the room is large enough, then IMO you need more than one set of monitors... after all the goal is to get your mix to sound good through many different types of speakers, so why not use 3 different sets to mix with? Many mix primarily on the nearfields, switching to large mains to check ultra highs and lows and down to something like Auratones to see what the mix sounds like on TVs and boombox's..

I think you are fooling yourself by using more than one set of monitors in the same room. A couple of problems. It has been proven over and over again that other speakers in a room are acting as passive radiators (or passive audio absorbers) so you don't get the "normal" response of any speaker in the room.

It is also misleading to listen to more than one set of speakers in the same room as you cannot get both sets of speakers in an optimal placement which means a compromise situation for all the speakers.

I always have to laugh when I see near field speakers sitting on a console top. They are not in a good acoustical setting and are causing all kinds of problems with their interaction with the top face of the console and are causing comb filtering making it impossible to accurately hear what you are mixing not to mention that they are interacting with the console frame and causing vibrations that may or may not be heard as vibrations but are still effecting the sound of the speakers. Thirdly If you are using speakers to judge the quality of your work when you are constantly changing the levels, the placement and the quality of sound from the different speakers there is no real reference.

You should get a set of really good speakers in a really well designed room and be done with it.

-TOM-

Yadda yadda

You know what? To each his own. Just learn to know your room well and learn to know your speakers really well. It doesn't matter what tools you choose to use, as long as you are comfortable with them.

Re: Yadda yadda

Bassix wrote: You know what? To each his own. Just learn to know your room well and learn to know your speakers really well. It doesn't matter what tools you choose to use, as long as you are comfortable with them.

That is a very nice sentiment but being comfortable with monitoring is not really monitoring it then becomes "listening". If I wanted to "listen" to CDs and records then I would have a very nice stereo/hi-fi in my living room that would make all the recordings sound GREAT and yes I would be comfortable with the sound. But I am a mastering engineer and I want to be able to master on speakers that give me a clear indication of what the music really sounds like with all the imperfections plainly audible so that I can correct them or at least know they are there.

FWIW

Thomas, we're talking apples and oranges. In my opinion NS10's are indeed not at all fit for mastering purpose. I was talking about monitors used for tracking. I've heard good mixes and bad ones from people using NS10's so can we blame the monitors?

You will probably agree that mastering is a totally different ballgame. As a mastering engineer needs to discover, isolate and fix problems he needs to hear ALL of the audio spectrum in as much detail as possible. I don't know about you but I can't afford a set of ADAM MP-1's for instance.

I am a strong believer in linear frequency responses and think staying as linear as possible thoughout all the hardware used is good practice; what you edit (or draw onscreen) is what you get to hear. So in my opinion a mastering engineer's monitors should simply be as linear as possible for as much of the sound spectrum as possible.

I've been using a pair of IMF CM-2's because they are honest speakers with quite a flat frequency response and great phase coherence. Just for checking problems in the lowest regions I sometimes do add a subwoofer but often this is not required. The stuff I've done so far always resulted in satisfied clients and mixes that translate well on most home and car audio systems.

Using monitors that color the sound as much as NS10's for mastering purpose is just a bad idea. They sound harsh in the mid region and the lows are missing. Mind you if people like tracking with them and getting good results by all means let them. Which is the point I was trying to get across in my other post.

Peace,

Marco

Understood....

-TOM-

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:

I think you are fooling yourself by using more than one set of monitors in the same room. A couple of problems. It has been proven over and over again that other speakers in a room are acting as passive radiators (or passive audio absorbers) so you don't get the "normal" response of any speaker in the room.

It is also misleading to listen to more than one set of speakers in the same room as you cannot get both sets of speakers in an optimal placement which means a compromise situation for all the speakers.

I always have to laugh when I see near field speakers sitting on a console top. They are not in a good acoustical setting and are causing all kinds of problems with their interaction with the top face of the console and are causing comb filtering making it impossible to accurately hear what you are mixing not to mention that they are interacting with the console frame and causing vibrations that may or may not be heard as vibrations but are still effecting the sound of the speakers. Thirdly If you are using speakers to judge the quality of your work when you are constantly changing the levels, the placement and the quality of sound from the different speakers there is no real reference.

You should get a set of really good speakers in a really well designed room and be done with it.

-TOM-

I have never had a problem with extra speakers acting as passive radiators in the control room ... I am sure this occurs but it has never created a problem for me. Wouldn't this would be a problem with having guitar amps in the CR as well or for that matter more than one speaker? ... So if this contention were to be taken seriously, then perhaps there should only be one speaker in the CR and we should all listen in mono? I think this is all a lot of "fuss budgeting" ... some things can be taken way too far.

I am one of those guys you laugh at who have the NS10s and my Auratones on the meter bridge, along with the flat screen for my DAW. My Mackie (used for monitoring) is shoved as far back under the bridge as possible, in an attempt to avoid (as much as possible) exrainous reflections. I also move back a foot or two once in a while to get a more "RFZ" area for listening. Because my Tannoys are much bigger and need more room to fire and because they are spaced further apart they can be placed further behind the mixing desk and still form the equilateral triangle needed for good stereo imaging.. As far as volume differences the way to avoid that is to use different power amps for each set of monitors and then calibrate all to the same levels.. It's not rocket science.

In this months MIX magazine's "Coast to Coast" sessions and studio news column, all the rooms pictured still have NS10's on their consoles. The picture of Ozzy's (just constructed) studio on the cover of EQ shows an old set of NS10s ... and there were two other pictures of studios with NS10s. NS10s are not a thing of the past as much as some people wish they were. As I said, there are still replacement parts available from Yamaha as well as others and while they are getting to be a bit expensive, they are still available on the used market.

Most people who knock NS10s have never used them for any length of time. They may have "visited" a pair in a studio during a session or have heard them in passing, but the truth is anyone who has done a few mixes on NS10 is more than not, likely to become dependent on them because NS10s deliver the truth. If you have whipped up a good mix, they can sound very good. If you have your head up your ass and you don't know how to mix, they can make you look very bad in front of your clients..

Last, NS10s are not a suitable monitor for mastering.. but then this is the Recording forum, isn't it?

Kurt Foster

You'll find it hard to believe, but right now I'm using nine (actually ten) pair of monitors, four pair in the CR, three pair in the tracking room and two pair plus a pair of computer speakers (with a sub) in the lounge.

And indeed, when a mix sound decent on the NS10's, it sounds great on the other monitors, but I don't use them very much and when I do I use them together with a sub.

I mix on monitors with much more detail and every now and then I check the sound on the NS10's.
That works very well, my clients are very happy with the sound.

Cedar Flat Fats wrote: [quote=Thomas W. Bethel]

I think you are fooling yourself by using more than one set of monitors in the same room. A couple of problems. It has been proven over and over again that other speakers in a room are acting as passive radiators (or passive audio absorbers) so you don't get the "normal" response of any speaker in the room.

It is also misleading to listen to more than one set of speakers in the same room as you cannot get both sets of speakers in an optimal placement which means a compromise situation for all the speakers.

I always have to laugh when I see near field speakers sitting on a console top. They are not in a good acoustical setting and are causing all kinds of problems with their interaction with the top face of the console and are causing comb filtering making it impossible to accurately hear what you are mixing not to mention that they are interacting with the console frame and causing vibrations that may or may not be heard as vibrations but are still effecting the sound of the speakers. Thirdly If you are using speakers to judge the quality of your work when you are constantly changing the levels, the placement and the quality of sound from the different speakers there is no real reference.

You should get a set of really good speakers in a really well designed room and be done with it.

-TOM-

I have never had a problem with extra speakers acting as passive radiators in the control room ... I am sure this occurs but it has never created a problem for me. Wouldn't this would be a problem with having guitar amps in the CR as well or for that matter more than one speaker? ... So if this contention were to be taken seriously, then perhaps there should only be one speaker in the CR and we should all listen in mono? I think this is all a lot of "fuss budgeting" ... some things can be taken way too far.

I am one of those guys you laugh at who have the NS10s and my Auratones on the meter bridge, along with the flat screen for my DAW. My Mackie (used for monitoring) is shoved as far back under the bridge as possible, in an attempt to avoid (as much as possible) extraneous reflections. I also move back a foot or two once in a while to get a more "RFZ" area for listening. Because my Tannoys are much bigger and need more room to fire and because they are spaced further apart they can be placed further behind the mixing desk and still form the equilateral triangle needed for good stereo imaging.. As far as volume differences the way to avoid that is to use different power amps for each set of monitors and then calibrate all to the same levels.. It's not rocket science.

In this months MIX magazine's "Coast to Coast" sessions and studio news column, all the rooms pictured still have NS10's on their consoles. The picture of Ozzy's (just constructed) studio on the cover of EQ shows an old set of NS10s ... and there were two other pictures of studios with NS10s. NS10s are not a thing of the past as much as some people wish they were. As I said, there are still replacement parts available from Yamaha as well as others and while they are getting to be a bit expensive, they are still available on the used market.

Most people who knock NS10s have never used them for any length of time. They may have "visited" a pair in a studio during a session or have heard them in passing, but the truth is anyone who has done a few mixes on NS10 is more than not, likely to become dependent on them because NS10s deliver the truth. If you have whipped up a good mix, they can sound very good. If you have your head up your ass and you don't know how to mix, they can make you look very bad in front of your clients..

Last, NS10s are not a suitable monitor for mastering.. but then this is the Recording forum, isn't it?

Kurt Foster

Kurt,

Just because "some famous people" have their NS-10s sitting on top of their audio consoles does not make it correct. Some famous people have ashtrays and flat mirrors installed on their consoles for some recreational drug uses but does that make it mandatory that you have those items as well? Maybe like a lot of photographs taken for magazines they were PUT there for the shoot (how many peoples homes do you go into that look like the shots in any of the architectural magazines?) How many studios are so cleaned up for most working days as they appear to be in the photographs taken for the national mags?

If you can't hear accurately during the recording process then the poor mastering engineer, me, has to make do with what is provided to him and sometimes it is just dead wrong. If you are monitoring on NS-10s then you are not hearing the bottom two octaves correctly and your mids and highs are overblown. (hence the use of tissue paper to dull them down a notch). If you are constantly switching speakers which one pair is really telling you what the sound is like? It would be like an artist painting in a room with 3 or 4 different light sources including, natural daylight, incandescent, fluorescent and quartz halogen. Under which lights do the colors seem the truest?

Quick story.... Good engineer who I work with on a regular basis has a very nice home studio including two live rooms, a vocal booth and a control room. His control room is abut 20 feet wide and 8 feet deep. His one speaker is located about 2 feet from his left ear his other speaker is about 8 feet away and his clients sit on an old couch behind him. He has a smiley EQ on the amps feeding the speakers and he uses all Sony ES series speakers, amplifiers and preamps. He has learned to use the system well and does quite good job with all the compromises he has to make with it but it sure would be easier for him to mix with both speakers eqi distant from his ears and without the smiley eq, and with a control room that was a bit deeper and less wide.

If you like NS-10s sitting on your console top and you can do a proper mix on them then use them. It is all about different strokes for different folks. I may not like to mix on NS-10s but some other speakers are more to my liking and as long as I am turning out grade A work that I can get paid for I guess it does not really matter what anyone, you or me, uses for speakers in the final judgment. My mentor has a clock radio in every control room that he listens to commercials on so he can judge the quality of the commercial he just produced. Does he use this as a final judgment for quality? no but they do provide him with a test of what he is producing played on the medium he is going to be heard most on.

As to extra speakers being in the control room a simple test would tell you. Take out all the extra speakers that are in the control room and listen to see if there is a difference. If not then you have won the argument and you can publish your findings in all the recording mags.

Have a great day.

-TOM-

All the pics I mentioned were "in session" shots and not the type where the C/R was "staged" before the pic was snapped.. If you want to see them just look for yourself.

Regardless if people want to admit it to themselves or not, NS10M's are an industry standard and are found in the best studios around the world. Many top flight engineers have mixed numerous hit records on solely NS10s.

I use larger 12" Tannoys mains to check the deep lows on my mixes but I mix primarily on the NS10M's... When I mix on the Tannoys and then switch down to the NS10's, I will usually have to make adjustments, especially in the "wolf note" regions, (200 Hz.) If I do the mix on the NS10's and then switch up to the Tannoys to check for bass, the mix usually works. This is because the Tannoys sound good while the NS10's are brutally honest, especially in the mids where most peoples hearing is the most sensitive.

As you point out, what works for one person, may not for another but it's also true that most major recording studios have at least one set of NS10's on hand to satisfy client requests and I for one, would be "lost" without them when doing a mix. Absolutely no other speaker can ferret out those low mid range "wolf" notes, so I can smooth the mix out.

Last, having speakers that go down to the lowest octaves are completely useless if the room they are placed in does not have the volume to handle ultra low frequencies. In view of the propensity for people to build studios in less than ideal surroundings, all the emphases on speakers that go below 50 Hz. IMO actually does more harm than good.. small rooms work better with near fields that roll off the bottom 2 octaves .....
My rule of thumb is in a C/R room with less than 1500 cu ft of volume, an 8" woofer is about the largest I would go.

Kurt Foster

Have you guys read the last copy of the Resolution mag?
It has an extremely interesting article about what's going on inside speakers, time wise versus frequency... and why those boxes that don't sound so good can be of great help?

I never liked NS10, but at least I now understand why some people like them so much...

stop! use ADAM audio speakers

tomtom wrote: Have you guys read the last copy of the Resolution mag?
It has an extremely interesting article about what's going on inside speakers, time wise versus frequency... and why those boxes that don't sound so good can be of great help?

I never liked NS10, but at least I now understand why some people like them so much...

Exactly! A speaker that flatters the sound will make something that is horrible sound better. A speaker that doesn't will force the producer to go that extra mile to make things sound better ... and that's what will transelate to other systems ....

I have made refernce to "lipstick on a pig" before.. that is what speakers that "sound good" are like ....

Cedar Flat Fats wrote: Exactly! A speaker that flatters the sound will make something that is horrible sound better. A speaker that doesn't will force the producer to go that extra mile to make things sound better ... and that's what will transelate to other systems ....

:D Good point, when playing back mixes in some of my small studios, I used home style low end HI-FI speakers, like minimus 7's, or Pioneers in the main room for playback while mixing, so the musicians and performers could hear what the mix sounded like through them as compared to the reference I was working with in the control room.

These were not able at all to handle the power an NS-10 could, but at lower levels they didn't distort too bad. But they certainly DID distort.
P.S. By distort I mean exagerations of sorts, extra sizzly tweets, boxy low mids, and a way looser bottom end.

--Rick

More ear, less gear

All valid points here but honestly as long as you know your speakers and your room and your mixes translate well to other systems, all is well. I use two monitoring systems including the NS-10's to mix, I also use a really bad ghetto blaster, and my car stereo system. The ghetto blaster is the thing I always count on to let me know how its going to sound in the real world as most people aren't going to have the setups we have. It seems to me that almost any engineer can make a mix sound great through nice studio monitors in a nice room, but ultimately if it sounds like crap in your car, or on your friends crappy stereo, or walkman than its time for a remix. I mean we can't say "you should buy a better stereo friend". Flat speakers are great, but the best we can ever hope for is to find a happy medium with our mixes for a not so flat world. Almost every consumer product out there has nasty Eq program settings for Pop, Jazz, Rock, etc.. and then Bass Boost on top of that, and this is how our music is listened to every day. So even NS-10's which were originally used as the lay mans speaker for mixing porposes are beyond the average persons setup.
Going one step further, with the advent of MP3 encoding, are mixes are prone to even further abuse. People that are growing up listening to MP3's obviously don't care, or know much about Hi-Fi, I mean this is even a worse step back than the transition from vinyl to cassette. Its the world we live in, and lets face it with the equipment available to us today we all have the ability to make great sounding recordings, it seems to me that you need good mic's, a good mic pre, and a good room. Over and over I hear mixes from nicely equipped studios that sound bad. You can own all the best equipment in the world, but you can't buy a good set of ears. And It seems to me that alot of folks could use more ear and less gear.

Conclusion

Kurt.. so do you choose the MSP5s over the NS10's?

i have used the mackies for a few years and they translate great, you people just need to learn to tune your speakers to your room, it works! mix a cd till it sounds perfect to you, then listen to it in the "real" world. if you hear to much low end, cut some bass and vise versa.

Re: Conclusion

thewyldkat wrote: Kurt.. so do you choose the MSP5s over the NS10's?

No I don't. While I recommend the MSP5's for new installations, for those who are unable to locate a set of NS10m's, and for people who need a set of powered speakers, I would still choose a pair of NS10m's in good condition over just about anything else ..

I would also suggest that ypu have a ste of MS5's as well as a pir of NS10's ... that would be a good combination ....

However, the MSP5's don't sound like the NS10m's.

If you like, you may read the review of the MSP5's I wrote [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.recordin…"]here[/]="http://www.recordin…"]here[/]