FINALLY!! The saga begins

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:19 am

As luck would have it, I've managed to get the flu... great.

I guess I picked it up when I was going back and forth to the hospital and the rehab center while I was dealing with my brother.

I've been taking aspirin, juices, green tea w/honey and drinking plenty of fluids. I'm doing better, but I'm definitely not going to be doing any major construction for a couple of days... BONUS!

Well, the siding crew did indeed finish the exterior as far as they could yesterday...

As you can see, the Tyvek area is awaiting the front porch/carport to be completed.

The front needs to be somewhat excavated to grade so that Ken (the concrete contractor) can come back and pour the parking pad and a 5 ft wide walkway to the entrance door.

After that, I can put up the vertical posts for the covering. I'll try to get the 2x8 banding up over the next week. That way, as soon as we can add weight to the parking pad, the roof can go right up. The parking pad will be 16x30.

The lounge (East) side and the North side landscaping needs to get started on cleaning up and leveling as well.

Thomas is supposed to be coming this afternoon to start excavation and leveling. I'm not sure how much he'll get done, but I hope it's enough to allow the concrete contractor to come in with little issue of getting grade for the parking pad.

One thing I'm happy that A.T. did, was to add the "Z" channel below the double layer of OSB.

Even though it's not a tremendous depth, it might be enough to allow me to add some kind of veneered rock... we'll see.

One thing that we did do yesterday was to try to figure out how complex the framing is going to be. That way it helps him to give me a better pricing figure for what he and his crew have got to handle.

One of the things we did figure out is that for a couple of the walls, that it will actually be better to build the walls square and flat. Then go back and add the higher angled portions of the walls in, like a knee wall or stiffener wall.

The plan is for me to go ahead and put as much stuff together as I can. Then we will hopefully work jointly to finish the framing.

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:25 am

OK... had a couple of PM's and comments from the blog... Since they all hit at the same time and so quickly...

i.e. "What are you going to do about attic ventilation?"

OK, the photo's of the soffit need some close-ups... They are the HardiSoffit and are indeed vented.

I haven't yet determined which way to go with venting the attic areas. Yes, I did say areas.

There is the obvious attic space above the studio and then there's the lounge attic too.

The space above the lounge will get a standard pair of gable vents. I'll be installing those once I make a decision on the studio venting...

OK, so to address the studio attic venting...

As I understand it, the "ultimate" venting would be both gable (cross breeze) and ridge vent (thermal rise). However, I am unsure which of the two would be better as far as the overall performance of the building is concerned.

I'm under the impression/understanding that doing both would increase the ability of sound to penetrate in both directions to a point of being detrimental. But I've been wrong plenty of times before...

Gable vents are less opening of cubic footage for air movement and will trap the hottest air against the peak of the ridge.

Ridge vents remove far more damaging heat, but represent a far greater opening.

Anyone want to comment?

Thanx!
Max

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:16 pm

MadMax wrote:

The space above the lounge will get a standard pair of gable vents. I'll be installing those once I make a decision on the studio venting...

Max - your best bet would be to install the "roof intersecting wall vents" made by one of the companies that makes ridge vent -

http://www.roof-2-wall.com/

Quote:

As I understand it, the "ultimate" venting would be both gable (cross breeze) and ridge vent (thermal rise). However, I am unsure which of the two would be better as far as the overall performance of the building is concerned.

I'm under the impression/understanding that doing both would increase the ability of sound to penetrate in both directions to a point of being detrimental. But I've been wrong plenty of times before...

Gable vents are less opening of cubic footage for air movement and will trap the hottest air against the peak of the ridge.

Ridge vents remove far more damaging heat, but represent a far greater opening.

Use the ridge vents - period - they work continuously year round andc are the best investment you can make for the long life of your roof.

Rod

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:18 pm

Rod,

OOOO!! that roof-2-wall stuff is slick!

I'll double check on that tomorrow!

As far as ridge vent... OK... got it!... Thanx!

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:37 pm

I think I am echoing what several hundred people reading your thread are thinking. We are thinking fantastic!

Andre

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:25 pm

avare wrote:

I think I am echoing what several hundred people reading your thread are thinking. We are thinking fantastic!

Andre

Andre,

Again, you make me blush sir! Embarassed

Are there really THAT many folks reading this thread?? Can't be... can there? (If there is... I better not screw up too bad on anything, huh?)

Despite not feeling quite up to snuff, I managed to get a little bit done... a very little bit.

However little, it's pretty important stuff.

I managed to contact 3 new HVAC contractors today. They were all able to make it today, so... a pseudo busy day dealing with HVAC!

I gave each of them a set of prints to review and took them through the studio and showed them what was what.

I asked them to review the prints and do 2 things... quote it exactly as is and quote it how they would do it different to keep costs down, or how to make it a more cost efficient system.

Interestingly, one contractor thinks that he might be able to give us a passive cooling; chiller based system AND a quieter heating system, cheaper than he can provide the system as Rod's designed. His company recently engineered and installed a similar, but larger system, at a local university in their recording facility.

Once he, and the other contractors, have come back with their bids, I'll let Rod take a look at them and see if there's anything that puts one contractor above the other.

In the meantime, I've actually felt well enough to haul my sorry butt down to the studio to do a bit of caulking. After dinner, I'm hoping to finish the caulking and get the insulation in the last exterior wall.

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:50 am

Well... certainly not much progress, but progress non the less...

The flu is easing up quite a bit. Enough that I was actually able to get down to the studio and get some work done.

One of the most satisfying things was straightening up and organizing some... and sweeping up some of the mess. Even using a dust mask though, the dust really did bother me. Getting some items up and out of the way really does feel good.

I also managed to get the west wall caulked and most of the insulation up. In the process, I've gotten quite a bit of the strapping up on the walls. There are a few things that bothered me about using a T50 staple on the strapping. Putting the staple in the strapping, it splits the strapping length wise. If you staple along the "grain", you don't end up with any holding power. Going cross-grain" you can get some bite, but I just wasn't happy with it. So, I ended up using 1" roofing nails to hold it in place. The strapping still splits lengthwise, but the head of the nail is large enough to grab both sides of the "spilt" without cutting the strapping. I'm hoping the inspector will let this pass. If not, I'll probably have to come back with some sort of larger electrical wire staple.

I had to go out on an errand, and stopped by to pick up some more nails.

Then, yesterday afternoon, an on-line buddy, Dylan Dresdow, hooked me up with A-Designs. He's been pretty high on the Reddi boxes for awhile. So... I'm taking the plunge. Two Reddi's are gonna get ordered on Monday.

After a good little konk and zonk power nap thanks to cold and flu meds, I went back out to the studio and got the last of the OSB off the old exterior wall of the Control Room. I started marking off the bottom and top plate lines for the gear racks.

Reframing the Control Room wall is going to be a bit tricky, and frankly a bit scary.

The plan is to determine the actual framing requirements and get those measurements as accurate as possible. Then, I'll make as deep as a cut as I dare make on the old exterior side of the studs. The temp wall will go up on that side of the wall to support the lounge ceiling and the majority of that end of the building. The temp wall will have to be snug up against the existing wall studs to provide maximum load transfer. I will then put in some jack boards on the interior side to help with stability and ease the load on the wall.

As far as what to build the temp wall with, I'm not sure... I have thought about using 2x8's and I've thought about using jack posts.

The use of jack posts would give me the flexibility to actually raise the roof enough to compensate for any weight compression when the final cuts are made. But they do scare the hell out of me because they are able to do the flex thing. I guess I shouldn't be wimping out on this. It's not like I'm cutting through all the studs on the wall. There will still be about a quarter of them left on that side.

Decisions, decisions.....

Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:13 am

MadMax wrote:

Are there really THAT many folks reading this thread?? Can't be... can there?

this thread is the reason i even come to this website...

Quote:

(If there is... I better not screw up too bad on anything, huh?)

right.

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:06 am

dave... man... uh.... gosh..... Embarassed

Well, I guess I better get busy and get some more stuff happening then.

Okay, this framing stuff is getting interesting.

In preparation for the existing rear Control Room wall to get re-framed for the equipment bays, I gotta be sure I'm not doing anything that is in code violation, or worse... that would cause a structural failure of the exterior wall where the ceiling and roof of the lounge tie in to the existing structure.

Here's a couple of options for viewing my concern... a pdf and a converted jpg...

http://www.dmmobile.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/cr_rear_wall.pdf

I'm not so concerned about the bottom of the re-framing as I am about the responsibility of the headers.

The bottom of the equipment bays are pretty straight forward. There must be two bottom plates and those bottom plates will be supported by triple 2x8 studs (two added/sistered studs) and based on the existing stud pattern.

The top boxing of the equipment bays are what have to be able to support the structure above. Rod originally called for a single let in header. This was based upon using the existing stud pattern. Because the existing framing is offset by 7.5 inches (a singe 2x8 width) is why the bays are having to be re-framed.

So.... I believe if we use a double 2x8 plate with a double 2x10 let-in header, we provide structural integrity to the exterior wall.

The construction plan would be something like this;

* From the "exterior" side of the existing wall, cut the studs to accept a 2x10 let in header and install it
* Place a 6x6 on top of 4 steel adjustable jack studs under the existing 2x10 band board for the lounge ceiling, and secure the jacks in a support mode with the jacks in between the stud positions and spanning the space of the 7 studs to be cut.
* From the "interior" side of the existing wall, cut the studs to accept a 2x10 let in header and install it
* Place 7 additional 2x8 jack boards from the floor to the top plates in a support roll for the interior side.
* Add the additional 2 bottom plate stud supports - sistered to the existing studs
* Cut the existing studs supporting the wall and install the 2 bottom plates
* Install the two top plates to the bottom of the headers
* Install the correctly aligned studs in the equipment bays as drawn
* Remove all temporary support

This is gonna get fun, huh?

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:05 pm

Max,

I don't like it.......... I don't like the idea of a permanent hinge installed (in the form of your new double top plate attached to the top of the header.

What I like better is this........

Layout framing according to plan.......

remove only the material required to allow you to install each of the post assemblies (one at a time) in between each opening so that the lobby roof/ceiling doesn't require any additional support. Those posts really need to go from the uppermost plates to the floor without a hinge in the middle.

then - once the outer wall (2x8) is reframed - you can let in the header on the inside (sttudio side) of the wall so that you don't have to remove the sheathing you have completed on the lounge side) and that will suffice for everything you need structurally to carry that wall load.

Now you can cut off what you need to complete framing of the openings - leaving the existing studs that remain in place - and adding a stud here or there as you might need them - and them frame the inside wall.....

What do you think of that idea?

Rod

Frame out

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:14 am

Ahhhh! OK!

It's a bit confusing in the elevation drawing of the bays. The horizontal plate and the vertical post lines all cross at that point where they meet just below the let in header. I interpreted that you were calling for the horizontal plate to be continuous so as to be a solid plate to attach the new stud spacing to. (pdf conversion?)

Obviously you know this, but to clarify the problem... The offset distance is approximately 7.5 inches from the existing stud location to the correct position. At this point, there is no way to reframe the exterior wall and have a continuous stud from the wall plate/top of the block to the top plates.

To reframe with new studs at this point, I would be forced to completely take down the lounge. The reason being is that the horizontal plates and banding of the lounge are lagged together and would no longer be structural.

So... that distance of the offset was what made me think that getting a "front" and "back" let in would be appropriate for the exterior wall. (Similar to a door header). Then using a continuous horizontal plate for the new studs to support the wall, as I didn't think you could put a spacer in a wall that was to carry load, if the load point was in the middle of the spacer.

So you are saying that this IS a okay to put a single let in and nailed spacers in place of the studs? (I'm not doubting... just wanting to make sure what I'm doing!)

The part that's bothering me is that where the existing 2x8 stud meets the let in, the existing stud is only supported fully on the let in side... or am I over thinking this?

Sorry if I'm being thick headed, I just don't want to mis-understand or you not have accurate info... and then I potentially go off and do something stooooopid..... like bring a friggin' wall down! Confused

Doing this right is more important than ego, so if I'm being a dumbass.... SAY SO!

Sorry to be a PITA...

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:22 pm

Max,

The existing exterior wall (party wall to the lounge) is 2x8 correct?

And these are continuous from sill to underside of the trusses?

Right?

OK- structurally we want these to remain that way.

IN the plan view of the wall framing ( detail 1 on A-2.6) it indicates that there is stud framing that needs to be in exact locations for this to work - and that detail 3 notes for you to reframe those 2x8's to match required.

The elevation of that wall indicates that these double posts that exist at each side of each opening run all the way up to the bottom of the backer for the inner ceiling (which is called out as a let in 2x8 on the studios iso wall.

It is my intent that this remain the case.

I cannot see what is so difficult about laying out the double stud member locations - and then installing them in the proper location - even if that means removing one of the existing 2x8 studs in the process.....

This way (once you finish up) - the 2x8 stud (after letting in the single 2x8 header - is still a full 6" in size - and the double blocking is just working as a stiffener (which was always my intent - sorry if it wasn't clearer........

Believe me - this is the much better structurally solid manner of framing this wall........

Rod

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:17 am

OK, got it.

I just need to find a way to remove the existing 2x8 studs and replace them. What I guess I'm now realizing is that this would have been better to have been done prior to the lounge going up and right after the pad was poured. If wishes were horses....... Oh well, gotta deal with it.

There are 7 studs total that are effected, and I'll find a way to get it done. The biggest thing as I see it are the lag bolts in the horizontal bracing for the lounge ceiling band. With those already in place, this just complicates the process and what I was hoping to avoid.

As you mentioned doing them one at a time, it will avoid having to do the temp bracing scheme. Removing the bracing and replacing one stud at a time and cut in new bracing will definitely be quicker. Then I'll move the lag bolts to the new studs.

Hopefully I'm now on the right track?

Well... I got a minor surprise the other day...

When Ken from WECO called to confirm he was coming Monday to form up the parking pad, he asked me to double check the minimum size for a handicapped parking area. He was a bit concerned about the size of the pad. I'm glad I did!

Seems that the spec is 16x20. When the plan review was done, the 16x30 was not understood correctly or they didn't catch the error. The size has to accommodate a 20 ft long vehicle.

OOPS!

Well, I screwed up and misunderstood the size.... So, when the concrete contractors came to frame the parking pad and sidewalk, we had to increase the size to 20x30. This is a HUGE difference in size!

This all happened Monday and they will be here tomorrow, Wednesday to do the pour!

The fact that the parking pad increased so dramatically, means a slight alteration of plans...

The original plan was to put a roof over the parking area. That way if folks wanted to sit in shade or unload in rainy weather, there would be plenty of protection from the elements. Now that the size is HUGE, I'm going to opt for something like an awning for the loading door.

The cost of putting on that large of a roof is all but impossible to justify. The cost would have been about doubled on materials alone and I cannot justify it.

On another note...

WOO HOO! (I think....)

I've managed to get the front wall of the Isolation Booth up.... The first wall is standing!

It's vertical, plumb and is actually standing on it's own.

I am starting to get the first view of the room's look, and I like it.

The progress is kinda' slow. The framing is a tad tedious, but with the angles of the ceiling, I was pretty much expecting this.

The corner is pretty rough to see in this view, but the double angle was pretty confusing to get straight in my head. One thing that I have to deal with is the fact that the top plates are going to have to wait until the fire blocking is in.

I'll also wait until the fire blocking is in to fill in the middle studs.

All in all, this isn't too bad of progress considering that my bout with the flu is still raging.

I just hope I can get over this junk enough to get back at it and get at least one room framed! Not getting anything done for a day ain't so bad... but missing 2 or 3 days is brutal. I got the booth to finish and I have GOT to get started on replacing those studs. Maybe by this weekend I'll be back in full swing...

I hope so.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:31 am

Nice exterior look. Congrats Max!

For me, the interior framing will be the most interesting part to watch. In my part of the world this type of construction is not common so it's always a joy to take a look on many details. This is great thread from the first post.

I hope your brother is getting better.

all the best

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:20 pm

Groff wrote:

Nice exterior look. Congrats Max!

Thanks G!

Quote:

For me, the interior framing will be the most interesting part to watch. In my part of the world this type of construction is not common so it's always a joy to take a look on many details. This is great thread from the first post.

I hope your brother is getting better.

all the best

I got the feeling it's going to be just as interesting to me as it is anyone! (HA!)

My brother seems to be getting along pretty well... thanks for asking.

BTW... how's your build coming along??? You should be about finished by now!

How about some new pic's and an update on your place?!?!?