Mic questions...

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:02 pm

Hi I`m currently checking out mics for my new presonus firepod.
And I wonder wich mics to put my money on.
My overall bugdet on mic`s will be around 1000 dollars.
Cant go much more expensive than that due to taxes and shipping costs.

I think the 7 piece or the 8 piece drum set from samson lokks fair enough.
The only mics I have now is one shure sm58, and one crappy Behringer dynamic handheld mic.

I also see that superlux and cad have simular sets, so the question is wich to choose.

I`ve also played with the thoug of only using Shure sm57 exept on the bass eand over heads.
Will the shures beat the samson tom and snare mics?

would appreciate recomandations in setups.

thanks

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:11 pm

Hi,
First of all I need to know how many pre's your Firepod has! If its the one with eight pre's then that's fine. If not, you would have to use a 8-12 channel mixer and take the sub-outs to the Firepod.

Regarding the Mics:
1. The SM57's are the best you'd could find in the dynamic category and by far the most versatile for any application. If you put up two of these to record overheads as well as the toms and snares, you could make-do with an additional PG52/SM52 kickdrum mic. This would be the most budget conscious option for a reasonably good sound.
2. Alternatively, at a slightly higher price, you could use the two Samsons for the overheads and add either one or two SM57's for the snare-toms combi and add the PG52 or SM52.
3. At a higher price range, you could use a three-mic combi with two SM81's (one of the finest small diaphragm condensors, though pricier!) and a single PG52/SM52 kickdrum mic. This will deliver the goods of a well-balanced and soft drum sound and is better than a couple of 5-6 mic drum kits from other brands.
4. The highest combi in your price range would be the addition of a single or double SM57's to option No. 3 for the snare-toms.

For a similar or cheaper price, you could find mic-kits from other brands, but I would settle for any one of the above combi's and get a modest signal for a limited budget.

Best wishes!

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:39 pm

will look into the mentioned mic options.

The firepod delivers 8 preamps.

again really apreciate the advice, as I`m not a drummer I dont have a clue whats good and bad.

All I know is that I want to get the the 70`s progrock sound, really dry and with lots of prescission.
More like the paper carton sound.

but for me to obtain that sound I supose I would need sennheisers, akg`s and neumanns.

But maybe If i do lot of mixing and reading I could get close with bugset mics.

cheerio.

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:24 am

Hi,
I don't think its necessary to go in for the costliest mics. Superb recordings have been done without the use of Rolls Royce equivalents among mics. Now that you've clarified that you need a crisp and dry mic sound, you would certainly need condensors for the overheads and for the snare/toms combination. I would seriously consider the following keeping in mind the 1K that you're prepared to spend.

Get the AKG DM112 or the SM52 for the kick drum for these would give you a tighter punch.

You have to also keep in mind the fact that to get the sort of sounds that you desire, you would have to add some serious compression to the tracks.
For obtaining the tightest crunch out of the snares you may also need to add some reverb with pre-delay and even some ducking. You may also need to put an extra SM57 under the snares with reversal of phase.
The kick drum may need a bit of padding for a drier sound. One may even require the use of two mics for the kick!
Last but not the least, the snares in particular need to be tuned for that dry tympanic crunch!

So, in reality its technique more than the mics themselves. Once you start recording you will through some experimenting, arrive at some standardization. You'll certainly find it worthwhile. Good drum sound goes a long way in the creation of fine music and use of multiple mics is in itself a challenge to such an endeavour.

I hope to keep you encouraged!!
Best of luck.

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:57 am

Thank you very much for the hints and tips, liked the double mic`in tips on the nare and bass, will surely try it out.

After your recomandation of the shure mics, I`ve decided to go for the shure beta52 +3 sm57 pack, wich is fairly priced in the us.
And this US company that I found has free shipping to Europe so thats a few bucks of the shipping expences.

Maybee I can get them, to loose a zero when they mark the package for shipping, and the include at least one or two condenser mics.

We pay 25% duty on merchandize bought abroad.

And last I`ve read several drum techs giving high praise to the Akg414, it looks good and probbably sounds good.

Now the question is, are theire any replica mics of the 414 offcourse with lower specs but good overall.

again thanks for all replies, and thanks to the mods of this place for keeping up the good work.

Exelent site.

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:37 pm

Hi again,
I guess you are looking for an alternative rather than a replica for the AKG414 for the kick drum!!
If I'm right in my presumption, then I'd recommend (in ascending order of price):

1. Shure KSM 27/32
2. Rode NT-2A
3. Audio Technica AE2500 (dual element condensor+dynamic)

Happy to be of help.

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:55 pm

I think alot of that sound could be achieved with tuning and proper application of muting on the drums, as well as close miking everything, keeping the overheads low to the kit, and yeah, a buttload of compression. I normally don't go in for those type drum sounds, but I love the way they work on old Yes stuff, and mostly Jethro Tull's Thick as a Brick. Barry Barlowe was 'da man!

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:55 pm

Hi first of all Barrie Barrimore is the man, him and Bill Bruford are my favorites when it comes to drum sound, also very weak for the sound of Andy Ward on Camels first albums.

The Akg replica question, I was aiming for Overheads as I`ve seen are highly recomended in many sound techs drum setups.

Thanks for tips on compression and stuff, will try my best to get that lovly 70`s prog rock sound.

I`ve got the guitar and Bass all figured out, not Chriss squire of yes sound but most of the other warm sound.

Specially satidfied with the guitar sound Though I havent tried to use a condeser on my mesa Boogie stack, that should work wonders.

Also my vocal setup will be improved, when I go from shure sm58 to a condenser of some sort.
very keen on valve, but it is a bit costly.

But again thaks for all tips clues rewally apreciate it.

cheerio

Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:52 pm

Nakatira wrote:

You might start thinking about how many microphones are really necessary for your application. If you can live without doing selective editing on the snare drum, you might get along with three mikes, or at most four.

The SM57 is a great choice for snare drum. For the bass drum, if you can live without the bottom end, the SM57 can be used, too. If you really need the earth-shaking bottom end, you might build yourself what Yamaha did with the sub kick: take a 8'' speaker with a strong magnet and mount it to a small mic stand with a few pieces from the hardware store. Cost: ~$40 plus a few pieces from the hardware store.
For overheads, I'd take Rode NT-1A, which give you both air and pressure. With that, we got two Rodes at $200, two SM57 at $90 and your DIY subkick at $40 - well within your budget range.

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