Depending on the source, different formants occur at different points within the envelope. By boosting or cutting frequencies that do not exist across the entire envelope, EQ does have an impact on the perceived dynamics of said source. However, this impact is generally considered negligible on most sources. In my experience, this effect is indeed negligable with electric guitars except in the most extreme/obscene use of EQ. I suggest rethinking your guitar choice, playing technique, amplifier, pedals, microphone, and compressor prior to using EQ to create a worthwhile impact on the dynamic content.
All you are doing is displaying the inadequacies of your eq or your mixer, not that fact the the eq'ing process is not linear. a boost or cut is a linear boost or cut, it's not gain or dynamic dependent.
Okay, you are correct in terms of most digital plugins, and certainly the mathematics of what an EQ does. But as I said, this is rarely the case in practical terms, especially with an analog EQ. Many analog EQs will clip at certain levels of gain on certain bands, thus actually frequency-selectively limiting the signal. You may be suprised at how inaccurate the boosting and cutting is on many cherished vintage EQs... why they all sound different....
I am trying to help you avoid a situation where you subtractively EQ a floor tom (for example), but then find that you need to boost that frequency later for the mix. What you end up boosting is the noise floor due to loss of dynamic range at the affected frequencies.
No, what you are doing is adding phase shift and adding noise via the eq. You are not raising the initial noise floor, Nor are you affecting the dynamic range in relation to the original noise floor. the dynamic range is still the same relationship in that frequency.
No, what you are doing is adding phase shift and adding noise via the eq. You are not raising the initial noise floor, Nor are you affecting the dynamic range in relation to the original noise floor. the dynamic range is still the same relationship in that frequency.
Michael,
In the perfect digital situation, you are correct. In the real world analog realm... that is not the case. Please try this yourself with 2 analog eqs. The noise you are hearing is not phase shift, it is due to those frequencies being closer to the noise floor before being amplified again. From your description it seems you don't believe in noise floor.
Look at it this way; in the analog realm, if you lower the volume of a signal below unity you are decreasing it's dynamic range; the difference from loud to relative silence has diminished.
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Again, you are hearing the noise induced by the device you are using. If you reduce a frequency, you are also reducing the noise floor of that frequency. The relationship stays the same. This is a linear process. If you take a stack of cards and raise or lower it in regards to height. the relationship of the bottom card is still the same to the top card no matter where you put it. If your EQ changes this relationship, there is something wrong with your eq or you are using it beyond the bounds of its ability or resolution. Don't mistake inability for fact.
If you reduce a frequency, you are also reducing the noise floor of that frequency. The relationship stays the same.
That is absolutely not true in the analog realm. In analog gear, your fader or pot is (generally) connected to your source and your ground. A 'wiper' is moved back and forth from the source to the ground. The closer you get to ground, the lower the dynamic range is. When you try to boost that signal again, you are raising the noise floor.
In an analog EQ, the noise floor does NOT go down with the frequency-- it can not go down below the ground, which is connected to the ground of all of the other gear in your studio (hopefully,, if you've connected it all properly).
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Last edited by buttachunk on Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
If you reduce a frequency, you are also reducing the noise floor of that frequency. The relationship stays the same.
That is absolutely not true in the analog realm. In analog gear, your fader or pot is (generally) connected to your source and your ground. A 'wiper' is moved back and forth from the source to the ground. The closer you get to ground, the lower the dynamic range is. When you try to boost that signal again, you are raising the noise floor of the ground.
In an analog EQ, the noise floor does NOT go down with the frequency-- it can not go down below the ground, which is connected to the ground of all of the other modules in your studio (hopefully,, if you've connected it all properly).
Again, you are mistaking inability as fact. The better the gear, the more ability.
Do you regularly eq things down to ground? When was the last time you had to cut a frequecy so far that you hit the noise floor of ground?
Every time you subtractively EQ, you bring the signal level of the selected frequencies closer to ground.
If you put that signal into another EQ and boost those frequencies back, you will be boosting noise because those frequencies were previously closer to ground and therefore the noisefloor.
I can't explain this anymore-- please re-read the earlier posts or other sources about this.
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
buttachunk Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
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Also, I must add that some analog EQs have the pot wiper actually controlling what is called 'feedback' for an opamp or similar circuit. What that means is it sends the output back in to the input, but with inverted polarity. This variably cancels out the sound *in relation* to the ground/noise floor.
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Last edited by buttachunk on Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
...my genre of music, which requires alot more EQ'ing
Jp22 wrote:
Quote:
Then I go into the control room and do whatever I can to reproduce the sound that I heard out in the studio. I may need to change mics, move it around a bit, possibly add some EQ.
Sounds too artificial to me. Thanks again, but no thanks.
You're contradicting yourself yet again. Go team!
_________________ If the band can build a fanbase by urinating in the ears of its audience, they will be successful.
Last edited by McCheese on Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
buttachunk, I hope what you're posting is just miscommunication. You seem like a smart enough fellow that I hope you'll re-read everyone's points and your own, and see if you still feel correct.
I've blown the mission several times with false reasoning, but whenever it's finally drilled into my head, I'll say, "CRAP! 10 pages later and you're right after all!" I'm a real @$$ sometimes when defending my incorrect point, which you have so far pretty much avoided, so kudos for that! I just hope you realize your error sooner than the 10 pages it sometimes takes me.
JP-- after reading that hilarious quote about your metel (sic) sound, I know for sure now that you're not for real. :hihi: Cheers for at least restoring my faith in humanity. For a while there I was sure that you are actually serious, and I was getting worried.
JP defenders-- I do understand your perspective... it's always hard to see someone get mobbed, because it seems very unfair and a very unbalanced battle. However, I don't feel too much remorse because if you look at his posts, he initiated much of the abuse himself. Just because he's now been mobbed, does that excuse his attitude toward other people? So... I relate to how you feel, but come on now... he's no victim here. Besides that, he's not even for real.
Greg
buttachunk Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 579
Location: 10 years in the future
do you all understand that the noise floor of a piece of analog gear cannot be turned down below the noise of ground ?
you cannot use an analog EQ to EQ its own noise floor down, as has been suggested...... its noise floor is the sum of the noise generated by the ground and its internal parts (power supply, transistors/opamps/tubes). Ground is the lowest point-- it is the "bottom" of your fader. It doesn't get any lower than that, with the possible exception of an unconnected lead (which is rarely used in modern gear)...
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
buttachunk Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 579
Location: 10 years in the future
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