Whoa, whoa guys. This is getting stupid again. Let's not forget the real issue at stake:
Jp22 wrote:
As I said, overall i'm happy with that end of my sound anyways and I could easily give back any minimal dynamics lost compressing with a bit more eq on my mixer (if that were a problem).
~Jp, "The Box", Minnesota, US
Hey Reggie-- I'm merely stating that dynamics CAN be affected by EQs (and getting shot at for it!). That is an important lesson for any engineer. You may be doing some subtractive EQing in a session, and then change your mind later and end up bringing up a load of noise. Know what I mean ?
(edit; spellllling)
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Last edited by buttachunk on Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Eq is a linear process, whether you want to use linear or non linear eq is not a concern. It is not dynamic dependent. if you boost 1k, it boosts 1k regardless of it's level or dynamics.
It's like a card trick. just because someone can make a jack turn into a queen, doesn't make them magical. if you take an eq and boost a frequency, and when something in the program hits that frequency and jumps out, doesn't mean it's non linear. the boost was always there, you just didn't notice it.
It is not dynamic dependent. if you boost 1k, it boosts 1k regardless of it's level or dynamics.
Michael,
you are mathematically correct but not exactly correct in terms of practicality (especially with analog EQs !). When you lower the gain of a frequency range, and then boost it back with a second stage, you are bringing up the noisefloor and thus dminishing your dynamic range.
Please try my previously listed experiment if you doubt this.
(1 shelf EQ -18db 5k -into- 1 shelf EQ +18db 5k= reduced dynamic range at the affected frequencies)
Or-- you don't even need to try it with an EQ if it's confusing-- with an analog mixer run one fader at -30db, and then into another channel boosting +30db on the line amp and see if the dynamic range is unaffected...
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Last edited by buttachunk on Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
Jp22 Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 196
Location: Minnesota, USA
This is close to exactly what i've been trying to explain all along. Seems i'm not the only one noticing the insane amount of ignorance around here. Some of these guys around here obviously think they know it all.
Last edited by Jp22 on Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Reggie Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: Springfield: Home of the Simpsons
Yeah....I still don't see it. I mean, you can maybe affect the dynamic range by introducing noise with an EQ or pushing things down into the noisefloor; but where I come from, cutting frequencies is one thing, and affecting dynamics is another.
If you are trying to make a point about adding noise decreases your dynamic range, then well, that just is a pretty worthless point. Why even make a big fuss about it.
Yeah....I still don't see it. I mean, you can maybe affect the dynamic range by introducing noise with an EQ or pushing things down into the noisefloor; but where I come from, cutting frequencies is one thing, and affecting dynamics is another.
Reggie--
You already see exactly what I'm saying. I'm only saying that EQs CAN affect dynamic range.
How is this practical ? As I was saying earlier-- if you track a guitar and cut out 10db at 4k (for some reason...),, if you want to add that back later you will be raising the noise floor of the affected frequency range. This IS an important practical lesson for everyday recording and mixing.
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Last edited by buttachunk on Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
It is not dynamic dependent. if you boost 1k, it boosts 1k regardless of it's level or dynamics.
Michael,
you are mathematically correct but not exactly correct in terms of practicality (especially with analog EQs !). When you lower the gain of a frequency range, and then boost it back, you are bringing up the noisefloor and thus dminishing your dynamic range.
Please try my previously listed experiment if you doubt this.
(1 shelf EQ -18db 5k, 1 shelf EQ +18db 5k)
Or-- you don't even need to try it with an EQ if it's confusing-- with an analog mixer run one fader at -30db, and then boost +30db on another channel's line amp and see if the dynamic range is unaffected...
All you are doing is displaying the inadequacies of your eq or your mixer, not that fact the the eq'ing process is not linear. a boost or cut is a linear boost or cut, it's not gain or dynamic dependent.
All you are doing is displaying the inadequacies of your eq or your mixer, not that fact the the eq'ing process is not linear. a boost or cut is a linear boost or cut, it's not gain or dynamic dependent.
Okay, you are correct in terms of most digital plugins, and certainly the mathematics of what an EQ does. But as I said, this is rarely the case in practical terms, especially with an analog EQ. Many analog EQs will clip at certain levels of gain on certain bands, thus actually frequency-selectively limiting the signal. You may be suprised at how inaccurate the boosting and cutting is on many cherished vintage EQs... why they all sound different....
I am trying to help you avoid a situation where you subtractively EQ a floor tom (for example), but then find that you need to boost that frequency later for the mix. What you end up boosting is the noise floor due to loss of dynamic range at the affected frequencies.
_________________ "Protest movies that imply most human experiences are fraught with difficulty and resolved neatly" - R. Brezsny
Reggie Recording Org Pro Audio Forums
Joined: Dec 20, 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: Springfield: Home of the Simpsons
You sir are obviously nowhere close to my genre of music, which requires alot more EQ'ing.... so if you find me "rediculous" then thats probably just the difference of the way you do things with the style of music you like (which i'm assuming is most likely african-american oriented). I sir, am high speed classical oriented with more distortion in one night than you use in an entire decade. SO, PISS OFF YOU ETHNIC MTV WUSSY!!!
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