Recorded famous pianist!

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:22 pm

I have no idea why or how, but recently I was allowed to record a pretty famous pianist. I will not mention his name here in case I might get into trouble for sharing his recording, but his name can be found in the MP3's ID3 tag. Please don't call him by name here.

Scarbo from Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit

I've included the entire work as this is something you're going want to hear.

Please critique my work.

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:52 pm

I like the way you put that... you were "allowed"...

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:53 pm

Oh, yeah! The recording sounds nice, too! I've no experience recording piano, and don't listen to much classical, but yeah...sounds like it should, methinks.

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Yes, it was a honor. Very Happy

Thanks drumist!

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:12 pm

Details? Nice job, David!

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:50 pm

Not bad. Great playing. I find it a little close and woofly though, plenty of LF woof alright. Spaced omnis by any chance?

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:23 pm

Yes, spaced omnis, MKH-80. They were nine feet out, seven feet high, and two feet six inches apart.

Some specific questions:

Does anyone know how to combat a wolfy piano?

Do you think the imaging is to indistinct?

I'd like to improve the clarity in the future. Spearritt thinks this one is too close. I find that it's already getting a bit verby in the LF so i'm wondering how to get extreme clarity with a nice bloom and without feeling like you're inside the piano. Any guidance?

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:47 am

Its one of the holy grails of recording IMHO. Trying to capture that rich brassy bass of the piano while maintaining articulate clarity throughout all freqs and also get sparkling highs.

Somwhere in there you have to have a coincident pr and some omnis. The distances and positioning of these pairs I have been experimenting with a lot recently and have some things worked out.

What do others think?

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:07 am

David, have you some favourite piano recordings that you would like to emulate?

Some of mine are:

Murray Perahia, Handel & Scarlatti, SONY
Pogorelich, Gaspard DG
Pogorelich, Scarlatti Sonatas, DG
Maria Joao Pires, Mozart Sonatas Complete DG
Freddy Kemp Rachmaninov, BIS

I used to like most of the Philips sound with Alfred Brendal and Claudio Arrau, but find it a little subdued now and prefer the colder but clearer DG sound. Maybe I am going deaf. Smile

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:27 am

Sounds beautifull
I like the fuzzyness of the imaging

Personally I like piano to be a bit more subdued and more room / verbed

I haven't tried this yet, but I'm hoping to do so pretty soon:
Omni's AB fairly far away as main sound, further away than this recording
XY or ORTF (card.) fairly close and only very very soft in the mix, just to add a tiny bit of presence / clarity back into the main room sound

Cheers

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Gonna have to listen to this on my good rig (just listened on my laptop- doesn't do sound justice). Anyways, I find the MKH80s are a strange mic to work with. I find that I always need to move them further back than I would expect with any other microphone out there.

When I use spaced omnis on a piano, I also space them a bit further apart and then move the individual mics a bit to compensate for the sound coming off of the piano (more to the left for more high end, to the right for low end, etc... If the high end sounds great and the low doesn't, I may even tilt the right microphone a touch to make it work....)

It is fun to work with great pianists, eh? I recorded Earl Wild a few years back- what a spectacular recital the guy gave. Then to consider his age, it just made it that much more special.

--Ben

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:36 pm

Quote:

Somwhere in there you have to have a coincident pr and some omnis. The distances and positioning of these pairs I have been experimenting with a lot recently and have some things worked out.

Please, please elaborate. Very Happy

I like your recordings very much. In fact, I have your Carmen and Pictures recordings saved to my hard disk and play them back for reference every once and a while. I'd love to hear elaborations on those setups and the things you were thinking when your recorded them.

Why do you believe you have to have a coincident pair? Do you believe the type of clarity and fullness I want is not possible with a single pair? I've often wondered how necessary more mics is for a single instrument, and i've come to the temporary conclusion that they are superfluous. I'd love to hear about the reasoning behind more mics on piano.

Quote:

Somwhere in there you have to have a coincident pr and some omnis. The distances and positioning of these pairs I have been experimenting with a lot recently and have some things worked out.

Again, i'd love to hear more. Very Happy

Thanks so much for spending the time on me!

And thanks GentleG for your input as well!

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:42 pm

Ben, just saw your post.

I totally agreee about the MKH-90 distance thing. Other mics (4006, 183) had been swamped at nine feet, but not these mics. Odd, huh?

So, you space them even farther apart? Last time I tried that, it was an imaging snafu? How in the hell do you pull it off? I've had two little pools of mono in each speaker with this approach. two and a half feet was the limit on this recording. Still the imaging is a bit vague IMO. Please please share a recording you've done with just a single widely spaced omni pair. Also, why do you choose an omni pair over things like Spearritt is talking about?

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:09 pm

I don't go a whole lot wider than 2.5' but I do go a bit.... (probably more like 3 or 3.25 feet).

I find that for sessions, I don't use just a single pair either... I usually have a regular pair with a pair of outriggers (omnis) to open the sound up a bit. For concerts, I go with just a pair that depending on the instrument, player and room is either a 426/SF-24 in some sort of blumlein or M-S setup, or a pair of spaced omnis.

When I use just the spaced omis, I use two mic stands so that they can be moved easily. I usually place them so that the mics are "looking" just over the top of the lid- not into the instrument. With my B&K's, I usually place them about 6 feet out or so (perhaps a touch further out depending on the room). I find that when positioning the mic looking into the instrument that it can become rather mid-rangy or woofy sounding. Capturing a bit less direct sound can help smooth it out.

Another trick when recording pianos that are really nasty (or when doing concertos with orchestra), is to place the microphone fairly close in (a couple feet out) and low down facing the lid to capture all first reflection sound from the instrument. It can smooth out a harsh top end and save a recording. In a concerto, it also gives you a sound that is a bit closer to what the audience will be hearing in the hall.

--Ben

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:21 pm

Quote:

When I use just the spaced omis, I use two mic stands so that they can be moved easily. I usually place them so that the mics are "looking" just over the top of the lid- not into the instrument. With my B&K's, I usually place them about 6 feet out or so (perhaps a touch further out depending on the room). I find that when positioning the mic looking into the instrument that it can become rather mid-rangy or woofy sounding. Capturing a bit less direct sound can help smooth it out.

You see, this is exactly what I have done in the past, yet none of my recordings have been outstanding. This is why I would love to hear a recording where this approach has worked.

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