400 person venue

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32 am

Okay the legal limit of this room is 400 people, but it can probably easily fit about 500-600 people tops. The room is a big pentagon and has some reverb to it. I had some questions about setting up this venue. This music played is Christian pop-rock, etc.... I need recommendations on what to rent and have a general idea:

24-32 mixer
1x15" or 2x15" speakers
4 monitors

Drums will be mic'd with a kit

Question 1: I'm debating whether we should get subs (size?) and let the bass player use a 4x10" and 15" stack. OR forget the subs and let him play out an 8x10" stack with the dual cab 15" speakers for everything else.

It's a very big band:
-3 vocals
-2 rhythm guitars/electric
-1 electric lead
-bass player
-piano/synth
-drums
-violin/cello

Should we let our guitar amps do a lot of work and simplify the PA system? or control the stage level and let everything out of the PA?

The idea is to make our sound very big, especially the low end. Of course we need everything to balance out. All suggestions are welcome. We are renting gear and I've already checked our prices. I just need suggestions on the ideal setup.

Thank you.

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:23 am

I believe that you will get the best sound if you get the lowest stage level possible and let the FOH do the job in terms of filling the room. this should allow the band to perform better as everyone can hear themselves and what they need to hear, especially as you are running strings.. it also avoids the vicious circle of everyone turning themselves up.

this method also gives you better control of the mix. for example, imagine you are running vox and strings thru the pa, and everything else thru their amps. that would mean that the only way to make guitars louder would be to turn up their amps, messing with your stage mix.... anyway above all enjoy this when its done cos thats wats important isnt it?

twon

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:40 am

Quote:

I believe that you will get the best sound if you get the lowest stage level possible and let the FOH do the job in terms of filling the room.

I agree. The more complicated it is, the more you want to be in control. Also, with the number of performers, I'd think about an 8bus mixer. that way you can control groups with one fader (drum kit, vocals, etc). It's not a necessity, but extra busses have saved me many times.

If you can, I'd go with subs on the mains. I've done a lot of gigs with mackie powered subs with great results. They make a huge difference in the overall sound and let you give your mains/amps a break. Pushing those lows through a full range system really eats up the wattage. Regardless of the subs, I wouldn't use the bigger bass rig (8X10, dual 15). That's a stadium rig that will just muddy things up at your venue. Keep the bass player's volume low and if you have extra channels, mic his amp and run a DI. Good Luck!

Wes

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:58 pm

You all have been very helpful. Thank you. I think we're going to have to manage with 4-bus mixers. 4 aux sends (but only 2 with masters)... The renting company is limited on their selection of mixers. I will probably hire out a sound guy but I would like to know more in the event something goes wrong as well. Couple more questions if you will:

As for monitor arrangement what kind of grouping should I do?
-Bassist and drummer on aux 2
-Everyone else on aux 1
it's going to be hard to make everyone happy...

On active crossovers what do you usually set your highest low level at? 200k-450k or so?

Technical question on mic'ing amps for live: off-axis or on-axis? what's your preference and why?

With the 4 bus i think we'll just split it up with vocals / instruments. That's the most simplified way we can do it right now with 4 bus unless you guys have any ideas. It looks like the board is a mackie sr24x4 i believe.

it's either that or would it be wise to have:
-vox, strings, acoustic guitar on one bus
-electric guitars, piano, bass, drums on the other?

Thanks.

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:34 am

Quote:

With the 4 bus i think we'll just split it up with vocals / instruments.

good choice imo, but you may want to add strings maybe....

Quote:

Technical question on mic'ing amps for live: off-axis or on-axis? what's your preference and why?

i know this sounds repetitive but try both and choose what you prefer.... i usually use a 57 aimed towards the middle of the cone, but i wont hesitate to change it if it sounds better...

for f/b you may have a hard time with only 2 sends. my choice would be
-make sure guitar and bass have amps, but not too loud. this means that guitar and bass dont need to go through monitors much
- i suggest having vox one one foldback and band on the other... sorry theres not really much you can do there....

just finally to quote remyrad less is more... keep your stage levels down and dont put everything in foldback - only what needs to be. otherwise your band complain that foldbacks are muddy. another suggestion, in soundcheck when someone complains that they cant hear themself, try turning everyhone else down rather that turning everything up in a cycle

good luck and above all have fun[/list]

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