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Madmax, Space and co. - floor design help please
Hi Guys, hope all is well,
I spoke to you recently about changing my garage into a studio and as you know after months of studying and deliberation decided to just make a usable room rather than totally isolate it, but figure i will do what i can with regards to isolation.
For me (being in cold north east england) usable means getting the room warm enough so as to stop humidity problems. The garage is a single skin brick construction. To get enough room insulation i will be making an independent room within a room wall frame, attached to the floor (but not the rafters for isolation).
The floor is 4-5" flat concrete.
I would have liked to just use the concrete floor as it is but unfortunately it needs insulating thoroughly as there is no insulation under concrete, but this means making a floating floor (which on my budget, poor knowledge, and room height) will make things worse regarding sound. I only have 4-5" to insulate and make floor. Ive read some people use 100kg/m3 rockwool under 2 staggered layers of tongue in groove chipboard and then build the wall studs ontop of this. This seems like a good idea for preventing floor and wall heat loss but seems structurally unsound?
Would i be better building the walls on concrete and then use rockwool/chipboard floor or should i build a separate floor frame?
Any help would be much appreciated as im a bit lost here
Cheers
Peter
After reading the bit on floating floors in rods book again, i think i might just make wall base plates and attach chipboard to this to secure it and use celotex under to get the better thermal insulation as it seems the rockwool wouldnt make any real difference ?
Cheers
This (even if it is at johnlsayers.com) answers your post. Since it reads like you are more in want of warming, or reducing cold infiltration and not so much an actual floating floor.
It is also in the same line of thinking that you are doing.
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...loating+floors
It is about half way down the post where Rod says what you have also stated here. Maybe you got it from his book?
Good luck
Hi Space,
Thanks once again for your help. Thats great thanks. Im only planning on using a perimeter floor plate to fix the tongue and groove to - but this will also form the base for the wall frame. Am i right in thinking this perimeter attachment will be enough contact for floor to act as a single leaf with concrete ? - and will it matter the chipboard is in contact with the wall? Just thinking it wont because if floor is acting as concrete would, then wall frame would have been placed on this anyway.
I didnt bother adding mass to ceiling rafters (except 2 double caulked wall boards) or isolating it (rc-2, green glue) so leaving the wall frame off the rafters probably wont be a huge help but seen as though they had to be off the brick to ventilate outer walls and floor via door, i thought its better to keep them off the ceiling. I only wish i could have got some mass up there on the ceiling but the joists are so uneven and some spacings are so small ( 5-6" at ends) that i just couldnt face it by myself (plus its a wierd shaped roof on a 15 degree slope). Its a shame really as my enginner verified it could take 5 gypsum boards and walls will be good. Unfortunately once walls are up there is no way of redoing ceiling if i ever decide to isolate it without starting again. I will probably regret not ripping ceiling down and starting again but it was just so much work that i bottled it (to use a north east term)
Cheers
Peter
The way I hear it is that placing walls on top of this type of floor damping my not be what you want to do. Pinching the edges down(of the plywood floor) could result in creating a drum head effect.
As I understand it, it is better to frame your walls and then install this type of system on the floor.
It's only real purpose is damping and to raise or keep the floor temperature up.
If I were you would you listen to me?
Cheers Space,
That answers my question again - you really should be charging for this!
Ok thanks i will do that instead - the drum head analogy definately makes sense.
Looking at my rafters and sloping hip again today i realised the top plates of the wall frame would have to be all over the place just to get close to ceiling height were hip is, so i think im just going to take frame onto rafters afterall.
And so, the final nail goes into the coffin of the dream of an isolated room. Oh well, i will save myself a whole load of work and money and probably headaches. But at least i will have my sanity (sort of).
When i did an accurate final estimate for the work (with me doing most of it) it was alot more expensive than i expected (the amount of acoustic caulk needed alone really put it up)
I figure if i am going to do it it should be done properly or not at all, so a standard room it is.
Thanks again
Peter
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