Getting a good bass sound from a PA

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:54 pm

Moonbaby,

I hear you. I see a lot of speakers in the course of a week and, unfortunately, the JBL's are far from atypical. In fact, I would say that most bands would consider them positively aspirational.

Yeah, it isn't the good old days. But, at least the JBL's are actually engineered, and QC'd. Some other PA company's are basically buying drivers on the spot market, by frame size, and dropping into their cabinets with little more than a 4 uF cap on the horn....

BTW- are you sure those are Eminence woofers in there?

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:43 pm

I have some things in common with your situation. I play in a church band (switched to keys in the last year, but did bass for the past five years.) I usually play through the PA with a Bass POD as a DI. I have a JBL Eon G2 that I use as part of a PA or as a standalone. One the other hand, I'm pretty much an old school R&B style player. I play a P-bass with flats. A nice thump in the low mids and enough volume to move people and I'm good to go. You don't say much about your style, but I know a lot of guys go for a piano like round wound sound for contemprary christian. If that's the case for you, my advice might not be much good.

At any rate, I am pretty much in agreement that the PA is probably the biggest part of the problem. Fixing it is pretty dependent on what is available locally. If the PA is doing the job on other full range instruments (like electric keys) then I'd look at the DI next. There are lower cost alternative like the sans amp bass DI, but watch out. You can throw a lot of good money away on a chain of cheap equipment.

As far as the bass itself, in my mind it's probably the least important part of the chain. I'm all for buying good instruments, but a cheap bass with a really good setup, good strings, and a decent set of pickups will sound good in the hands of a good player. Fancy wood is just guilding the lilly.

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:07 pm

If you want your bass to be tight, phat, clean and big, turn the bass down, had a limiter and add some upper midrange. People will hear the bass if you stop trying to amplify "the bass". You can't hear bass, only feel it. You can hear midrange, so accentuate that.

I'm here at home bass
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:11 am

Hi All

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I think the first thing we will try to do is get a Bass amp. We are probably gonna go for the fender rumble 100. and then if we need a bit more volume we will line out to PA and at least that will put the PA under a lot less stress.

One question though: if the bass amp is on stage and is being used as the bass players moniter as well as the main sound source for the room, then wont the sound of the bass be too loud on the stage for the rest of the musicians.

Thanks again

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:18 am

You really shouldn't need to put the bass guitar through the floor monitors. It's not recommended. Tell the bass player to turn up his amplifier. You don't want to rely on the PA system to amplify the bass. Tell him to get a good amplifier with a good head that might feature a direct output to be used for " sound reinforcement" not amplification.

Going the wrong direction in the right way
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:28 am

Clinton:
Yes, there is the potential for the bass to be too loud in that the physics of low frequencies result in the bass notes getting louder as they travel in distance, within the confines of an indoor space. In other words, the bass can and will be louder in the congregation than it is percieved onstage. But this can be controlled very easily by a device that musicians hate to use...it's called the Volume control! You will need to learn the balancing act of stage vs house volumes. This is not hard to do for someone like you, who seems like he's not an egotistical rock star. But it is imperative that you learn to play with a "real" bass amp onstage and not rely on stage monitors to hear yourself. Like I said previously, those types of speakers were never meant to handle bass guitar, they are mainly designed to work with vocals, and low end instruments run through them sound muddy and can ruin the speaker components. Remember:"Friends Don't Let Friends Play Bass Through the Wrong Speakers"....

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:22 am

Hey Thanks everyone (Moonbaby especially)

I will be chatting with the guys in the music team to see if we can all chip in for an amp.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction

C

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:21 pm

Hi All

Ok, we got a bass amp. Turns out someone in the congregation had a Fender 100W (dont know the model but it has a 15") just lying around.

so we hooked it up and it really sounded good (much better then the PA).

So a question: would we set it up at the far back of the stage next to the drummer. I ask because the amp sounds very different if you are not lstening to it straight on. So people directly in front of the amp will hear one sound and people to the side of the amp will hear another (less defined) sound.

Thanks All

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:29 pm

clinton wrote:

hI aLL

I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions on geting a good electric bass sound from a PA sytem. Basically the signal chain goes like this:
Bass -> DI Box(not bass DI) -> Desk -> speakers (2x15" and a sub).

What we are finding is that the bass gets lost sometimes during loud songs but is there in the softer songs. Also the bas sound is very WASHY, it's not a tight and powerful sound. Now I realise the setup isnt ideal but it's all the band have. I'm looking to get a cheapish compressor pedal to try to sort out both problems but was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions.

By the way the compressors I'm looking at need to be low cost so i'm gonna have to go with behringer (please dont hurt me!!) or Samson.

Thanks

Heita clinton

1) Get a decent bass amp. Ampeg SVT, Gallien-Kruger, that other double-barrelled name mentioned hereabouts, Hartke, etc. Problem: costa plenty $$. Mic it up and use the DI output as well. Do NOT use ANY Behringer bass amp. Or a Behringer rack preamp/compressor, not for bass. You could try their dedicated pedal bass compressor/limiter. Has same nasty cheap bubble-wrap package as the DI knockoff I refer to in solution 2. It may help for slap passages, it may be rubbish. I wouldn't bother with it, a bassperson should be able to control slap dynamics with his/her hands and pot trim anyway. Some of the Behringer rack compressors were designed by a talented dude who now works for RME and they may be able to handle the mid/upper range, vocals. Not bass. And as long as they actually work at all, that is...

2) Budget solution: Go to local music shop and get Behringer BD121 DI/amp sim combo box for about R350. It is a rip-off of the Sansamp Tech 21 and it is not as good but it gets the job done. Plug in bass: Precision, Jazz, Music Man, Yamaha or Made in China cheapo Ibanez for that matter. Route the DI output directly to XLR mic input on desk or alternatively to a cheapo Joemeek3Q mic preamp/compressor (using the compressor conservatively, as a makeshift limiter) and then take one or both the 3Q's TRS line outputs via balanced cables to the line ins on one or two channels on the desk. (The idea being that you can vary the channel eqs, one for bottom end and one for mids. Don't use the Joemeek eq, it is not totally terrible but there's no point unless you just want to cut or boost a little midrange). Or use the RNC compressor, again conservatively, just to control peaks rather than as an effect. There are much better mic pre/compressor solutions, like the Fatman for example, which has a built-in DI, or maybe that TC pedalboard thing with a laptop (theoretically), but they are effin expensive out here on the edge of sanity and are better kept at home to track bass to a computer, unless perchance you just made several millions selling killer fake-ass cigarettes to hapless construction site workers...

If you still have a "wash" problem fire the bassist and get someone who can actually play ie with some DRIVE and correct damping technique. And with their fingers, not with a pick, unless you are doing Stranglers or Beatles covers (in 2007?).

Cue much laughter from the gallery. OK, I live in SA. Are you in Jozi? I''ll bring my old passive p/up Jap Fernandes Precision copy with said cheapo DI and preamp and I will drop an Aston Barrett or Marcus Miller on ya. Tonewise, I mean, the chops are a little rusty, no to mention the cursed mouse RSI. No, the amp will sound better. Yes, the cruddy DI costs a few hundred bucks. Wat se jy, bra?

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:24 pm

clinton wrote:

Hi All

Ok, we got a bass amp. Turns out someone in the congregation had a Fender 100W (dont know the model but it has a 15") just lying around.

so we hooked it up and it really sounded good (much better then the PA).

So a question: would we set it up at the far back of the stage next to the drummer. I ask because the amp sounds very different if you are not lstening to it straight on. So people directly in front of the amp will hear one sound and people to the side of the amp will hear another (less defined) sound.

Thanks All

Oops. Ignore the wordy rant above. Glad you found an amp dude. Foundation of any band playing any genre is that the kick and bass must lock down the groove. Since you are not micing up the drummer must hear the bass amp loud and clear (and the bass player must hear the kick, obviously). And be able to maintain eye contact! In line with and fairly close to the kit is the correct position for the amp, all the more so if you are playing in a boomy church hall. The more reverberation either player picks up the harder it is to stay in sync.

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