First thing's first, right?

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:05 pm

My wife and I are about to buy a home. i've been doing the project studio thing for a little while. nothing ultra fancy, but some nice mixes.

We're about set on the home that we want to buy. So the question is: where does the studio go?

I feel like i'm really starting over here. Got some decent equipment through improvements in my humble little basement but feel like this move will allow me to go to the next level. Not the perverbial "next level" like a masterpiece studio, but my humble - "that's a sweet demo man!" next level. I've never been one to judge a studio on looks, just the way it sounds.

I've got a few options for the location in this house. If its necessary I will post some crude sketches of the 3 rooms I'm considering placing the studio. Sorry for the lack of specifics right away with measurements. I'm more interested in the pros and cons of studio location in a home.

First, there's the basement. If i do it right, I just don't think that the ceilings are high enough and there has to be a cheaper way than to dig out the basement and re-lay the foundation of the house.

Second, there is an upstairs bedroom. For starters this is where I will be setting up once we move in to lay down some idea tracks and mix the multitude of projects that are in the works for me (and to be honest I'm really geeked to hear the room difference while mixing to find the strengths and inadaquacies in my current setup!)

Third there is an upstairs attic. Pretty large acutally. Very long and narrow. The home is an old A frame, so the room in the attic has non-perpendicular walls to form it's width, like a tee-pee. I think that this has the most long-term potential. I also have the luxury of doing the whole thing from insulation to electrical. The attic is a wodden gut with a paritially insulated roof. It seems pretty dry, but regardless i can sure everyting up through the construciton process.

I guess my question is: should I half-ass the bedroom design to start out and maintain sanity there while i focus on the attic project? Or just go balls out on the bedroom?

In the bedroom I have some pretty cool options, but if I do the bedroom right, I don't think that I'll ever take the time to go up to the attic. Which would be better in the long run give the vague description.

Please help. I love this stuff.

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 pm

sorry that last line should read: GIVEN the vague discription.

Sorry: not trying to be demanding.

Again, please lend me your 2 cents. Thanks

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 pm

P-S-B,

I certainly ain't the one to be giving too much advise, but a couple of things to do/consider...

First, do yourself a huge favor and read Rod's sticky at the top of the forum. (e.g. please update your profile to include where you are... otherwise I wouldn't expect too much help from Rod or Steve... They ain't being anal for no reason.)

Project-Studio-Beginner wrote:

Not the perverbial "next level" like a masterpiece studio, but my humble - "that's a sweet demo man!" next level. I've never been one to judge a studio on looks, just the way it sounds.

Good approach IMHO... although nice aesthetics make for a much more enjoyable session, right?

Quote:

If its necessary I will post some crude sketches of the 3 rooms I'm considering placing the studio.

Probably will help...

Quote:

First, there's the basement.

Quote:

Second, there is an upstairs bedroom.

Quote:

Third there is an upstairs attic.

I guess my question is: should I half-ass the bedroom design to start out and maintain sanity there while i focus on the attic project? Or just go balls out on the bedroom?

In the bedroom I have some pretty cool options, but if I do the bedroom right, I don't think that I'll ever take the time to go up to the attic. Which would be better in the long run given the vague description.

Please help. I love this stuff.

IMHO, if you've got the money to do it half-assed twice or half-assed once and balls out once, then why wouldn't you just go first class once? Seems like you got some extra bucks... can I have em'?!?

Seriously, I'd narrow it down and just go first class one time.

You find fault with the ceiling height of the basement... OK, basement's out.

I can interpret the bedroom v attic statements either way.

I'll choose to see more problems with the attic... because I personally don't like the idea of hauling all that material up a single step, much less all the way to the attic! (Because hey, it's my opinion, right!?! Twisted Evil

)

That being the case... it's the butler, in the bedroom, with the candlestick!

... no, wait, that the grandkid's game thingy... Confused

X

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:40 pm

Let me add that you should also get Rod's BOOK and read it cover to cover before you start on anything. (Which is exactly what I'm doing...)

I'm in a similar situation in that I'm moving my production suite (within the year, so I have time to plan) into another home. The house is ready to plan and prep, and we've settled on gutting & remodeling the 2-car garage, for several reasons. Fortunately, there's plenty of room on the property, so we can add a carport (and even enclose it someday as a second garage), so giving up the garage is no big deal right now, and this means zero impact on the rest of the living space. In addition, the garage shares a common wall with the main living room (which is largely used for "show" right now.) We'll put a grand piano in the main living room (which has hardwood floors and plenty of space for the occasional acoustic-music sessions I might do).

The garage is at the end of the house (it's a rectangular shaped home; a rancher, at that), so noise isn't going to be a problem, either. The garage is already insulated from the rest of the house for fire-code, no physically separated, but quite good for its day.

As for your using a bedroom vs. the attic, I'd ask yourself a couple of key questions:

What is the primary purpose of your room? Fun/hobby? Experimental? Professional? Outside clients? (Strangers vs. known clients?) Will you do drums? Will you have a sub? Will you be mixing at night when others are trying to sleep? Will you have kids someday (if not already? Will the baby's room be next to your studio room? hehehe...sorry, just had to ask....)

Will your "studio" be mainly a computer-based private production suite, or will you be jamming and recording with other real musicians?

Do you have a lot of gear that will be going in and out of the studio on a regular basis? (with bands or friends/musicians, etc.)? This may affect putting it in the attic, although I like what you're describing in terms of an A-frame type of loft. (Can you expand one side or the other, to raise the roof a bit?)

Could you make an outside or separate (stairway)entrance to the attic? (Not as crazy as you might think, and your wife might appreciate any foot-traffic going directly in and out of your studio instead if in through the house, up the stairs, past the bathroom to the hallway to the attic accessway....)

Speaking of bathrooms, if your studio is going to be used for long sessions, you may want to consider a separte, dedicated bathroom. (ESP if other family members are planning to have a life while you are doing long, late-night sessions with even one or two other guests. Coffee and alchohol are both diuretics....you can do the math for a 3-4 hr session and a shared family bathroom...)

Then there's HVAC, electrical, and lighting to consider. It's not as bad as it sounds, but if you're going to be in that space for a while, then it's much much smarter to figure it all out now, instead of having to take everything offline farther down the road to do HVAC or electical mods.

Believe me, I'm going through ALL of this now, and I really don't want any missteps along the way. I meet with my first contractor tomorrow for prices and ideas....

Good luck with yours!

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:16 pm

wow. thank you! Lots to consider. I want to expand a little on the basement ceiling height. I just got the opportunity to take some measurements in the house.

the basement ceiling height is about 82inches. I'm just a little worried about how much lower that will be with insulated acoustic cieling tiles, sub-flooring, padding and carpet, or other flooring. Right now it's an unfinished basement with a cement floor. When it's done, will I be able to sling a guitar over my shoulder without banging the neck on the ceiling? Or even stand up? -- how much vertical room will I be giving up when I build the room(s).

I'd also kind of like to see an entire year in the house to see if the basement has water problems the basement might have.

My studio will be mostly for my own projects. That's the way it's been in my current setup. I would be bringing in drummers for sessions on an infrequent bassis. And the majority of bass work that I do, I get my best results using a di-box and one of the many eq/effect patches that i've made over the years.

I play mostly rock, jam, blues and funk. take a listen if you want (just some demo stuff) at www.myspace.com/guitarasutra.

I need a room that can give me a solid listening/mixing environment, an area to record high quality sounding vocals, isolation to record a cranked 2x12 tube amp, and decent all around acoustics for when I bring in horns and drums when I need to.

Thanks again for the reply.[/url]

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:25 pm

JoeH,

Excellent points all!!

OK, the basement... this is just one loonatic's opinion, but I think the consencous is that you are probably better off with hard floors and soft everything else in a CR as opposed to soft floors and hard everything else... you save that space, and while 82" is probably going to be tight, its still possible. How much vertical room is left really up to you and how your house was built.

(You really should get Rod's book!!)

Also, your concerns for water are just as applicable to the attic as the basement.

Max

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:35 pm

it does sound like you're leaning towards the basement. 82" is pretty low already, although I'm only 5'6", so I rarely bump my head on stuff anyway... If you're creative, you might not loose all that much with a drop ceiling; perhaps 6-8" instead of a whole foot...

You're also ahead of the game with a solid concrete floor (which is what mine is now.) Unless it's uneven, I wouldn't do much more than a carpet or so, to keep clatter and slap minimized. I have been working with my mixing area facing out of one of the corners, facing out onto a 22x22 room that has a lot of stuff to break up any reflections; I essentially have no nearby parallel walls this way. The floor and ceiling are parallel, but between the carpet below and the treated drop ceiling, it's pretty smooth all around. Also, aside from the ceiling itself, the basement is all stone walls as well, with some studs/panelling and fiberglass insulation in front of it. I"ve been lucky to have worked in a space that's all stone at its core, save for the ceiling, and I swear by it.

My only complaint is that I rarely see the sun (or the moon!) when I'm working. The new space will have some windows (behind me, in the client area), so I can at least see what time of day or night it is, and perhaps a little glimpse of the weather outside, as well.

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:59 am

I've been reading rod's book and I have been considering everything that people have posted already to help me.

Here's where I'm at:

OVERWHELMED...to say the least.

The basement - the more I read of rod's book, I'm realizing that there just won't be any way for me to stand up in the room when it's done. 82" is way too tight if I float the room, use double wall construction for the walls and cieling - which is the only way to get the isolation that I want. No sense spending the money and time if the sound will just escape (or enter) anyway...or it's not possible to stand up (i'm 6'1") I could just treat the bedroom upstairs...

which brings me to this:

The house is very old. The bedroom (room) has wood floors that creek pretty bad. Althought this might not be a problem in the control room portion of the room, if it will indeed be a live room I'd be in trouble with any ambient room mics...

(I hope that this looks right on everybody's screen)

I know that the measurments are written a little small so:
Clockwise (starting with length of the wall on the left) the measurements for the walls are
148in
128in
52in
39in
96in
89in

I would like to use the closet as an amp room and build a "isolation chamber" inside the closet to make it possible to set my tube amp to 11. The closet is elevated already about a foot off of the ground.

The space that is 39x52 would make a nice vocal booth/amp room (for different amp effects that aren't so muted by the isolation chamber idea). In this area, the wall on the far right is angled by the roof about 15-20 degrees. It is perpendicular to the floor about 35in high, then angles in toward the room.

For what it's worth i typically use DI for bass...but would love to be able to go out and get a bass rig for some real mic sounds.

The walls and cieling are plaster. Its an old house.

I need this room to mix, record amps, vocals and DI'd bass. I use, and build drum loops for demos and hire drummers, or get drummer buddies to come in and record sporadically. I do want part of this room to be able to record drums, and I'm hoping that certain treatments (while not allowing me to eliminate resonaces from the structure) can give me nice sounds.

Questions - (if your still reading this post i sincerely thank you!)

1. I do realize that building a room in a room in a second story bedroom is out of the question - but is it possible to float a portion of the room. Is it possible to float the vocal booth area without putting stress on the structure of the house?

2. Does anyone think that it is a good idea to put carpet in the room? Everywhere? Just portions (vocal booth area?)

3. I'm considering taking the 39x52 space and framing a door jam in the area to further isolate the space.

4. If it's not possible to float the space that is 39x52 is there anyway to treat the area to eliminate resonances to the structure from low frequencies...

I know that some of these questions are already answered in rod's book...I've posted this to get differing opinions or possibly hear about new products that have been introduced since the book came out.

I realize that I will have to get real creative on this room, and that Auralex will probably be on my speed-dial pretty soon...

any help is much appreciated.[/img]

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:58 am

oops, forgot one important thing

Ceiling Height is 89 3/4 in.

Is it possible for anyone to help me now?

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:01 am

Project-Studio-Beginner wrote:

82" is way too tight if I float the room,

I am of the opinion that floating a floor is generally overkill for all but pro studios and elevated floors (whch usuallty can't take the loading) - you can get good isolation without floating a floor in a basement

Quote:

use double wall construction for the walls and cieling - which is the only way to get the isolation that I want.

Actually you can get pretty good iso with the use of RC channel on the ceiling as long as you take the time to beef up the mass on the floor above - and then go the extra mile (with extreem care) - to isolate the walls from the ceiling structure.

Quote:

No sense spending the money and time if the sound will just escape (or enter) anyway...or it's not possible to stand up (i'm 6'1") I could just treat the bedroom upstairs...

Think for a minute - right now you have 6'-10" = if you opted for a etched and epoxy floor directly over the existing concrete - you would loose nothing there.

RC plus 2 layers of drywall (with green glue) would only loose you about 1 3/4" of height - call it 2 inches just to be safe - so you'd have about a 6' 8" ceiling height - 7" overyour head- what are you going to bang it on?

In old houses you are pretty much doomed to failure when it comes to this.

Most OLD houses with plaster ceilings and walls are framed by a method known as "balloon framing".

With this frame t he studs run right from the basement through the first floor and up to the top of the 2nd floor walls to carry the roof.

There are no interuptions between the roof and basement to stop the passage of noise - and thus no matter what you do on either the first or 2nd floors of this house - you aren't going to get much in the way of isolation. The same goes for the attic........

I hope this helps some

Rod

which brings me to this:

The house is very old. The bedroom (room) has wood floors that creek pretty bad. Althought this might not be a problem in the control room portion of the room, if it will indeed be a live room I'd be in trouble with any ambient room mics...

(I hope that this looks right on everybody's screen)

I know that the measurments are written a little small so:
Clockwise (starting with length of the wall on the left) the measurements for the walls are
148in
128in
52in
39in
96in
89in

I would like to use the closet as an amp room and build a "isolation chamber" inside the closet to make it possible to set my tube amp to 11. The closet is elevated already about a foot off of the ground.

The space that is 39x52 would make a nice vocal booth/amp room (for different amp effects that aren't so muted by the isolation chamber idea). In this area, the wall on the far right is angled by the roof about 15-20 degrees. It is perpendicular to the floor about 35in high, then angles in toward the room.

For what it's worth i typically use DI for bass...but would love to be able to go out and get a bass rig for some real mic sounds.

The walls and cieling are plaster. Its an old house.

I need this room to mix, record amps, vocals and DI'd bass. I use, and build drum loops for demos and hire drummers, or get drummer buddies to come in and record sporadically. I do want part of this room to be able to record drums, and I'm hoping that certain treatments (while not allowing me to eliminate resonaces from the structure) can give me nice sounds.

Questions - (if your still reading this post i sincerely thank you!)

1. I do realize that building a room in a room in a second story bedroom is out of the question - but is it possible to float a portion of the room. Is it possible to float the vocal booth area without putting stress on the structure of the house?

2. Does anyone think that it is a good idea to put carpet in the room? Everywhere? Just portions (vocal booth area?)

3. I'm considering taking the 39x52 space and framing a door jam in the area to further isolate the space.

4. If it's not possible to float the space that is 39x52 is there anyway to treat the area to eliminate resonances to the structure from low frequencies...

I know that some of these questions are already answered in rod's book...I've posted this to get differing opinions or possibly hear about new products that have been introduced since the book came out.

I realize that I will have to get real creative on this room, and that Auralex will probably be on my speed-dial pretty soon...

any help is much appreciated.[/img][/quote]

Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:32 pm

Thank you Rod.

I have been trying the best I can to research the methods that you noted in your reply.

I'm pretty handy, but also pretty green when it comes to construction.

Everything that I'm reading about epoxy floors is telling me that it takes a great deal of care to prepare the floors, and the use of chemicals that require a lot of ventilation. I just don't have a way to ventilate the area adequately.

The prior owners of this home also had the floor painted grey. Not sure when they did it either, so whether or not the paint is lead-based is up for debate. So I'm not exactly sure if I want to sand the floor to remove the paint berore preparing to acid-etch or sandblast the floor.

Are there any other methods out there that would render the same result? ie= no loss in final ceiling height.

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