Two SM57's on one amp?

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:51 pm

Hey, I'm new to these forums.

I'm also new to recording. I've got a pretty basic set up. A Marshall AVT 50 amp, a Yamaha UW500 interface, an SM57 and a Pod XT.

My friend is ditching his pursuit of recording rock music as he's moving onto electronica, trip-hop sorta stuff. He's offered to sell me his SM57 for a pretty cheap price (£35, with a stand thrown in.) It's in perfect condition, full working order 'n' all that good stuff. But will it make any difference to my recordings to have two mics on the amp at once?
Will it thicken it up for example?

Money's not an object, considering how cheap it is. I can easily afford it, but I'm not going to buy it if it won't make a positive difference on my recordings.

Are there any other factors I should consider in the purchase?

Thanks,
Gareth.

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:12 pm

buy it. you can never have enough mics, and a 57 is always usefull.

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:02 pm

Will a 2nd 57 render a "positive difference"? With the rig you have listed, probably not. Simply placing an extra mic on a single source can be a real nightmare UNLESS you understand and can control "mic phase". You need to aquire a simple "phase reversal" adapter (or fabricate a similar cable) made by Shure, Whirlwind, and others if your mic pre does not have this switchable capability. If you don't have this capability, the sound can be a LOT worse than a single mic. Once you can do this, you can have a blast, mic'ing the front and the rear of the speaker cab ( or the top and bottom of a snare drum, etc). Just be warned no to expect miracles by simpl slapping an extra mic at the source...

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:24 am

sm57s are great microphones. if you have a good deal on one, pick it up i guess.

like the other guys said, a 2nd mic can be way more trouble. if you want to "thicken" a sound, then do that with your software. double tracks and such.

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:29 am

if its cheap and in good condition, buy it. When you get more serious into recording, you won't kick yourself in the future for passing up a good deal.

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:52 am

moonbaby wrote:

Will a 2nd 57 render a "positive difference"? With the rig you have listed, probably not. Simply placing an extra mic on a single source can be a real nightmare UNLESS you understand and can control "mic phase". You need to aquire a simple "phase reversal" adapter (or fabricate a similar cable) made by Shure, Whirlwind, and others if your mic pre does not have this switchable capability. If you don't have this capability, the sound can be a LOT worse than a single mic. Once you can do this, you can have a blast, mic'ing the front and the rear of the speaker cab ( or the top and bottom of a snare drum, etc). Just be warned no to expect miracles by simpl slapping an extra mic at the source...

or he could flip it in his DAW?

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:57 am

Tracking guitars with multiple mics requires that you know what you are doing and how to correct any issues preferably before the signal ever hits the hard drive. A simple rewiring of a mic cable will do the trick.
There was a specific question asked here, I addressed THAT. What amounts to a so-so "bargain" may be great for one person, totally useless to another. I have recorded probably over 100 different guitarists over too many years. If you can't capture the sound from the amp using a single 57, something else is wrong. Another 57 isn't likely to render much of a "positive difference" if that's all the poster will be using it for. Frankly, you'd be better off spending that money on acoustic treatment of the room he/she is recording the amp in, if not already done.

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:26 pm

I'm only 16, and record in my bedroom, and getting the accoustics treated isn't on the cards, unfortunately.

I think I'm going to go with what many of you have suggested and buy it anyway. For that sort of price, I probably would be a bit of a fool to pass by such an offer.

Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:30 pm

It never hurts having two SM57's on an amp summed together. Infact it tends to sound a bit fuller just take care in phase problems. Get some thick foam and stick it between the two microphones (granted you have two speakers you're mic'ing rather than just one).......the other option is just recording straight from your POD XT those things have a KILLER D/I they've fooled me afew times on the question of: is it an amp or D/I (on a full mix mind you).

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:52 pm

[quote="multoc"]It never hurts having two SM57's on an amp summed together. Infact it tends to sound a bit fuller[quote]

No it doesn't, sorry to call you out but you're not going to get a "fuller" sound from placing the same mic on a single source. Louder, yes, fuller no, and louder can come from just turning the volume up. I still say buy the mic because 57's are great and you could at the very least resell it for a small profit but it won't magically make your guitars sound better or fuller because you throw another mic on the source. Now, a combo of mics could get you a more full sound. For example, I used to capture the "body" with an audix d6 and the primary sound with a 57 but to be honest if you can't get a good tone with a 57 then you should look at other things like your room, mic placement, amp placement, and how your amp itself is tweaked out.

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:36 pm

the sound will change if you use a second sm57. just BECAUSE of phase issues. no sm57 is the same than another one. and the placement will be different. so it might sound fuller.

however it will sound even better when you use two sm57 and mic two different speakers (provided your amp has more than one). and it will even make a greater difference if you use a different amp. and the fatness and liveliness of the sound will be enhanced if you use a different mic instead of a second 57, like some condenser mic on your second speaker. there's a lot of choices...

ah, btw: make sure you pan those mics apart, if you don't all you might get is some kind of comb filter effect that might sound good or not (less likely to sound good the more parameters are the same)...

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:26 pm

[quote="jonnyc"][quote="multoc"]It never hurts having two SM57's on an amp summed together. Infact it tends to sound a bit fuller

Quote:

No it doesn't, sorry to call you out but you're not going to get a "fuller" sound from placing the same mic on a single source. Louder, yes, fuller no, and louder can come from just turning the volume up. I still say buy the mic because 57's are great and you could at the very least resell it for a small profit but it won't magically make your guitars sound better or fuller because you throw another mic on the source. Now, a combo of mics could get you a more full sound. For example, I used to capture the "body" with an audix d6 and the primary sound with a 57 but to be honest if you can't get a good tone with a 57 then you should look at other things like your room, mic placement, amp placement, and how your amp itself is tweaked out.

I'm talking in terms of mic'ing an amp with multiple speakers (2x12 cabinet/combo with acoustic foam or the like between the two speakers)

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:27 pm

rockstardave wrote:

double tracks and such.

I hope you're not saying doubling the same track on each side that creates the opposite effect - Just ask Brian Wilson or John Lennon!

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:38 pm

multoc wrote:

rockstardave wrote:

double tracks and such.

I hope you're not saying doubling the same track on each side that creates the opposite effect - Just ask Brian Wilson or John Lennon!

He probably means multitrack and pan, that usually will yield a much fuller sound. But that also depends on if the song needs that style of guitars.

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:15 pm

jonnyc wrote:

multoc wrote:

rockstardave wrote:

double tracks and such.

I hope you're not saying doubling the same track on each side that creates the opposite effect - Just ask Brian Wilson or John Lennon!

He probably means multitrack and pan, that usually will yield a much fuller sound. But that also depends on if the song needs that style of guitars.

That's true

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