has any one thought to teach themselves music business

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:20 pm

I can see I'm not the only one with war stories.

Being involved in other major things put perspective on the music thing.

I was in the U.S. Army, tried boxing and eventually drove a bus in Manhattan for the MTA.

I got a real education from all my endeavors and the common denominators are power, greed and ego. Human nature rules.......

We all miss a point here too.

Look at all those who did make it.....

How many crashed and burned......

Died early in their lives......SRV, Hendrix, even some lesser know guitar players like Paul Kossoff and Freddie King who was to the best Blues guitarist period, died at 43.

Became an embarrassment, look at all the actresses on TV with their bad face lifts and collagen lips.

Look at this Bimbo who just lost her children.....

Whitney with the best voice ever married to a loser.....what a waste of a voice.

I respect Grace Slick who really couldn't sing that well, she refuses to do the whole reunion thing. She says it ridiculous, I'm a middle aged woman.

The Stones are kind of embarassing.......they sound horrible. I can't figure out how a person can play music and not get any better after 40+ years.

So even if you "Make it", what have you made......a shorter life span? More enemies.......more divorces, more drugs, more sex.....it doesn't look like these people are happier than the average person.

It's the pure business people who make their money off the artist that really prospers and reaps the rewards of our hard work and love for our art. The lawyers and backers, the hangers on and exploiters they love their jobs. They use you until you have nothing left to give, then you are discarded like yesterday's trash.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:22 pm

Quote:

Will there ever be another Elvis?

Why or why not?

Will there ever be another Beatles?

Why or why not?

NO and NO - Why ? very simply said "Rock & Roll" is dead. It's grandpa's music. And it's been hashed and rehashed a millions ways over in the last 50 years. That is to say there is nothing fresh about it anymore.
Rock & Roll was born from the spirit of youthfull rebellion against the previous generation. Rock & Roll was about a music that was an alternative to their parent's music. With that rebellious nature built into the very heart of the music I find it very strange indeed that the youth of today is still hanging on to their parents/grandparents rock music.
There won't be another Elivs or Beatles until a new generation breaks with the old and forms their own music, and I have a funny feeling that music, will be defined by its idenity in opposition of the the present - that is to say that it won't include, screaming fuzzy guitars, sceaming singers, bad stage antics, phoney pubicity stunts, tatoos, slick marketing, nose rings, old has been-geezer rock bands that don't know when to quit, and so on and so on, if you get the picture, then and only then when the music goes back to the bottom and starts again will a new start emerge.
My advice to kids today - forget the Rock & Roll, it's dead, it was grandpa's music, find your own music, you deserve better, find a music that expresses your generation not your grandmother's.
And by the way there is nothing wrong with singing in tune or playing in time, although it may seem like a lost art these days. Expect more from your performers and you will get it. You've been getting a lot of crap shoved at you for so long now, from your local nobody musician types all the way to the corporate bands, the whole spectrum of rock musicians have been feeding you crap for years, lose them, lose them all, you deserve more. They've degenerated what music could or should be and suckered you into buying it.
So to the youth of today I say - Lose the tatoos the face hardware, the bad rehased geezer rock, the whole thing. It's your generation be who you are not what your paraents want you to be or listen to. And I'm speaking as one of them - they've lead you down the path to ruin speaking musically and otherwise. They've were very misguided and quite less than honest with you - now you have to go out and find the truth for yourself and express it in YOUR music.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:42 pm

Theres a very simple reason that todays generations are starting to cling to "Grandpas music"....it is simply better. It has a soul and that has not diminished over all the years. That generation of music was about SOMETHING tangible and real. Unfortunately todays speed of living allows no time for retrospection and thought. Its all about now and the minute now is gone its about the next now. If the current generations dont take a moment to breathe slowly, they're gonna suck all the air right off the planet!

As to the idea that rock and roll is dead, I beg to differ....Nothing dies that has a SOUL and rock and roll was born with that soul....

Yeah, I'm one of those old guys that just keeps on rocking. I cant stop because it is a part of me that feeds my soul and my inner self...much like all those fossils that continue to play for fans that still admire them. I see nothing wrong with doing what is a huge part of a life that has been lived and continues to be lived.

Perhaps your failure to truly understand this is simply because you havent put in the time. When you have done that, you will have a clearer picture of the whys and why-nots that drive so many.

It never ceases to amaze me that at the shows my 'over-the-hill' rockers play, the young musicians start the evening off with a jaundiced eye and at the end are the biggest supporters of what just went on.

Its like they just sat through a program of class and culture and cant wait to sign on for the next installment.

Besides.....we just Rockthefuckouttatheplace. Twisted Evil

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:59 pm

I don't think Rock is dead.

I think the idea of putting in the time to learn how to make good music is dead.

Classical music is as popular as ever. So is Jazz, blues and classic rock.

Country music has been going for decades, it has changed into more of a Southern rock thang but it's still alive. The grand ole' opry is alive and well.

People still buy CD's of older music and movies like Ray and the one about Cash keep it all going.

Good is good, great is great and bad sucks. That will hopefully never change, although it goes through different phases.

As long as people take the time to learn about music and put in the time to become proficient on their chosen instruments music will live.

As long as the genius of Mozart, Beethoven, The Beatles and yes even The Police, B.B. King, Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong and thousands of others are recognized we have hope.

As a blues/soul/classic rock player I do feel like a dinosaur but I can make good music.

Maybe someday the bottom line will be more about art and less about making high profits. There's a point when the idea of profits without art destroys the quality of the music and we have long passed that point. Let's hope it cycles back in our lifetime.

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:41 am

Hey guys, glad I stirred things up a little....
I actually didn't mean that R&R wasn't any good, there was some really great music.
More than being dead, I guess I mean it is a dead-end for the youth of today.
R&R at it's heart is/was about 'youth', remember - "I hope I die before I get old" - the Who, just as an example. Classical musica wasn't based/built on the concept of youth, neither was blues, jazz, etc - but R&R was. Well I guess the youth of the 60s never thought they'd get old, but get old they did, which then became a conundrum, - what to do about the music that express - over 30 send'em to the camps ('member that) well, the music R&R got pulled along and pulled along, until it is still here today. Hey I grewup on it and played it in bands for years, but I can't do it anymore, not that I don't like it, I just feel like I'm trying to relive my childhood when I do, the music expressed a time and place of the PAST - great - But I don't want to relive that past, listen to it yes, be nostolgic yes - but not relived and speaking to the youth of today it's 2008 not 1969, I say find and create your music.
Sure Dave - it's got soul, but with all due respect - "So What" - It's dated, personally I just don't find it (R&R) timeless, like jazz or classical music, or etc......and the reason being is that it (R&R) has the inherint attitude build into it, that attitude is, the message it always conveyed --- about throwing off the past, hope I die before I get old, the times they are a changing, etc, etc, etc, R&R dated itself.
And now all it is doing is rehashing and old and outdate idea. Sorry....How long can we drap the 60's along... Hey I don't doubt people still like it and that the kids today are continuing with it - I understand that, afterall McDonalds is still selling hamburgers after all these years.
'Pop' music has always evolved and changed since the 1800s, marching bands, to ragtime, dixieland, jazz, etc.....the stars always came out on the leading edges of those evolutions.....nope no new Beatles or Elvis, until there's a new music. R&R is old and stale, I don't care how many people are still eating it, when Ed Bradly from 60 minutes is wearing an earing, things are over, if you get my point, the trend has been beatin' to death. It's time to move on, sorry for the baby-boomers it's time for the youth of today to give us what we gave our parents - as such I tell the youth - take a 180 and head off in the opposite direction. I guess that is a paradox isn't it - the take home message of R&R was - "take a 180 from the past", so kids if you take that message from R&R, in essence the very soul of what R&R was then you need to forget it and find your own music and your Elvis and your Beatles, not your grandparents. It's not about 'us' anymore it's about 'you'
I hope that before I get to depart from god's good green earth that I do get to see the youth heading off in a new direct with a new music they can call their own and that in the spirit of R&R it complete breaks from the past and is in complete opposition to it. Afterall isn't that what R&R told us to do.
It's time for the baby-boomers to suck up their own message - it's old, we're old, it's over, give it up ----- Kids throw us in the camps, musicaly speaking, and lead the way.

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:36 pm

I will say only a couple of things about this...

ONE: The more things 'change' the more they stay the same.........

I was there at the revolutions' doorstep. The things we fought for, railed at, cared about, some died for........all those things are still with us. And they still require our attention and supervision to keep us from burning a great big hole in the Earth. We were fortunate to have a musical voice to help us through these things. Its unfortunate that todays youth seem unlikely to rely on this to soothe their woes and fears. Music is so average these days. Its going to be next to impossible to ignite that sort of creative spark that went along with my youth. I'm afraid that asking the kids of today to ramp it up and move this to a new level is like asking the candlemaker to build rockets for the new millineum.

As far as the rehashing of R&R.....Take Classical music as an example. Very little thinking outside of the box for a couple hundred years of its peak in popularity.....R&R has only had 50 years or so, so its still a youth in terms of its halflife. Classical music was born to entertain the upper classes yet still managed to filter down to the wee folks at the bottom of the food chain. Mozart was very very popular with the masses and wrote pieces for them involving all the aspects of their miserable lives....much to the chagrin of his masters.

Perhaps we are simply in a lull where the forces are gathering for a new push forward into a style that no one can predict.

I CAN predict one thing....as long as the monkeys are running the business we will not see the likes of a Jimi, John Lennon, Elvis, Roy Orbison, the list goes on........................as long as the bottom line is profit and when that profit becomes threatened and a new 'trend' or a 'star' has to be invented in order to shore up the bottom line, we will not see anything new.

TWO: Just because someone has 'been there, done that' doesnt make them any less viable as a musician or a performer.

Like I said.....me and my boys kick the living daylights outta most of the young guys on a nightly basis.

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:15 pm

Davedog wrote:

Quote:

I'm afraid that asking the kids of today to ramp it up and move this to a new level is like asking the candlemaker to build rockets for the new millineum.

I certainly agree......What I am asking/suggesting the youth of today to do is 'ramp it down'....... R&R of today is like a contest to see who can have the most tatoos, play the loudest music, shock the establisment to most.....you can't ramp it any more, ie. it's over, done, put a fork in it.
Ramp it down.
I was there too when R&R was being born when I was entering puberty, and found myself smack dab in the 60s......The movement was built on resentment of our parents who told us we couldn't smoke pot, or screw in the field, so we lite are guitars on fire and played music loud to piss off the neighbors.....the only reason we were against the war was so that we could say to our parent (the establishment) - "Yea but you start wars, so don't tell me I can't smoke pot" --- that statement pretty much sums up the whole baby-boomer philosophy of the 60s, and it is still alive today, even though we're pushing retirement age........ Yup I was there, all those peace rallies were just an excuse to get laid and smoke pot. As such R&R carries alot of phoneyness with it.
Sorry I just can't play it anymore - It makes me feel like I'm singing nursery rhymes, after all, and even though I use to think Hendrix was god, I now see him as childish as The Cowsills or Sonny & Cher....just because he burned his guitar, turned it up load, and did alot of drugs...and was "HIP" - it was still childish, music for kids, my generation should have had the sense to grow out of it along time ago, but we didn't, so the youth of today certainly should, if they know what's good for them.
But like I said, I do like R&R, an do still listen to it. But I also like Mr Rogers and nursery rhymes, nothing wrong with any of that stuff. I just can't seem to place any great importance on any of it, I guess I've finally grown out of carry about being "Hip" -- for you kids that don't know - that is how there term "hippy' came to be - "hip" among other things was a beatnik expression from the 50s, "hip" - google it - Then tell me if you still wanna play they old or start the new.

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:22 am

PS: And don't take anything I say to seriously - It's just my 2 cents - and 2 cents ain't worth all that much theses days Laughing

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:33 pm

Actually I looked past that and have learned that even though it's childish there was so much talent and expertise that went into it's production. I thought about that and started to re-appreciate some stuff I started thinking the same thing about.

All those late 50's and early 60's stuff pop race music, it was engineered by guys like Tom Dowd. A lot of those pop hits had some great musicians on them and great production. Top session guys........all that LA stuff during the 60's, even guys like Sinatra had only the best in terms of musicians and recording.

Even the dreaded disco had ground breaking recording techniques and special effects along with great rhythm sections and great horn sections. Not to mention some of those singers were actually superior to the music itself.

So you learn to appreciate things by looking at them from different view points.

Maybe the end results might actually be less than the sum of it's parts as opposed to a band like the Beatles whose sum was much more than it's parts.

Some of the things Hendrix was doing was beyond anything at that time. He was taking rock, soul, blues, jazz and everything else and blending it into his own thing. And fighting the record companies who wanted him to be more like a wild man live and the Monkees on record. They wanted hits from his recordings and Ringling brothers live. He was like the Mozart of the 60's.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:41 pm

bigdaddie - I must agree, there was some fantasic music made back then, I still think some of the best and talented performers musically were those in the 50's and early 60s.
The vocal abilities of the doo-wha groups - amazing..... the recordings of guys like dean martin sound like he is standing right in front of you.
And yes, I pick on Hendrix because he was such and icon of the times, but he did take music in a new direction, perhaps it was going there with or without him, but........I do take issue with how that direction was picked up and is still being run with and rehashed over and over untill this today....It did reflect 'that' time and period in pop music.
I liken pop music to fast food - it's immediatly satisfying and tastes good but it soon loses its flavor leaving you looking for your next fast food fix.
Today I find that I like and really appreciate music from back then that I really never like then...but other old stuff when I hear it today - I think "Jeez how did I ever listen to that crap" - I won't mention any artist.
To be honest I stopped paying much attention to pop music a long time ago.
A youngster once mention to me how he was disappointed in the pop/R&R music that was currently being made - I told him that there is plenty of good music, old and new out there, in all genres. He just need to go find it and stop thinking that 'pop music' was the whole world and waiting for it to deliver the goods..........So many people (listeners) tend to place 98 percent of their music focus on pop/rock music. In many ways pop music has dumbed down the audience......Most people would spend 200 dollars on a ticket to go see there favorite screamer throwup in a bucket on stage...but would throw away a free ticket to go see Wyhton Marsalis saying "who's he", if you get my point.................their whole world is pop music, you might say they have a very bad musical diet and their mental health is suffering from it. Which is one reason why I think that the new generations have to move on and away from it.
OK there you have it another 2 cents.....

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:47 am

WoW, What an awesome read.
I enjoyed this in your face bit of truth wake-up.
Awesome.

Davedog, I copied your compleat post with your avitar,
and printed it off. [the Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:04 am post] 1st page
The (expanded) two page post will go back
to back in a clear sheeth for those that enter my humble
home studio to read. Thank-you.

It is a good read for all that come to our studios.
Most believe we will provide them with the
Hey-Ay-Yay, and reality sucks sometimes.

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