Pro tools LE multiple interfaces

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:03 pm

OK. I am currently a Cubase user on PC and am putting together my transition into Pro Tools/Mac. I am planning on the 003 rack system.

Currently I run a Tascam FW 1884 and an RME Fireface 800 (through ADAT) which gives me 16 channels. The RME can be parelleled together with another one for 20 total A/D converters. My question is, could I run 2 RME's into the 003 rack via firewire basically doing the same thing I am now? This way, the 003 would be running the show but not doing the actual work. I don't want to use the 003 converters if I can get away with it.

In other words, is anybody here using multiple interface types with an LE 003 system?

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:04 pm

NO. The only firewire interface you can hook up with PT is one Digi firewire 002,003, MBox Pro. If you want to bring in others, has to be ADAT or SPDIF thru the one 003. 18 channels max input I believe.

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:43 pm

Quote:

If you want to bring in others, has to be ADAT or SPDIF thru the one 003.

I think that's what he's asking.

Unfortunately there is only one ADAT input for the OO3.

The Presonus Firestudio has two ADAT INPuts for a total of 24 simultaneous inputs including the interface itself. Of course, no protools with that rig. Mind you, you already have a 24 input setup.

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:57 pm

Thanks. I was afraid of this. When is PT gonna get off their hi-horse? Focus on the software not the hardware! Worked for Bill Gates!

Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:08 pm

For users of M-Powered PT, when M-audio came out with their 'ProfireLightbridge' firewire device, an interface that had 4 ADAT inputs and ran on PT M-Powered it would record 32 tracks up to 48K and 18 tracks up to 96K I think. Digidesign realized it 'left the door open' and with some upgrades, like to PT 7.4 or 7.3.1 they closed this. Now only 18 in. Read this thread. They have to sell the HD rigs that do the large track counts. It will do it, they just don't want you to........

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=MPMAC&Number=1124396&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge-main.html

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:28 pm

Exactly - a good Native DAW can easily hold its own against a $10,000 TDM Rig, and Digidesign knows this - so they "Cripple" PT M-Powered and PT LE to force you to TDM/HD if you need more than 18 tracks...

Cool

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:28 pm

I don't know about that. Every try to work with dialog with all the delay native processing has?

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:42 pm

Well, I run my main DAW in "Realtime" for my PA System. I feed the Mains, Monitors, my Shaker, and my HP mix natively. I don't even have a physical Mixer in my PA System! Nuendo mixes everything "Natively" (no "Dry" DSP Soundcard Mixing - I'm talking 100% "Native" to the CPU and back). I run tons of real-time Plug-ins (Waves SSL, Sonnox, PSP, etc) and I don't have any latency issues (and I'm the drummer).

RME's HDSP allows latencies UNDER 1ms (0.75ms/32 Samples). Add a little AD/DA latency, and it is realtime for all practical purposes. Even lesser ASIO Interfaces can achieve 3ms Latencies no sweat. This is HIGHLY dependent on a properly configured PC. No more latency than a Guitar Player hears from the Amp to his Ear 4-6' away Wink

Native Latency might be a problem if you have poor quality ASIO Drivers or an ancient PC that has all kinds of IRQ issues - but a modern PC will NOT have any Latency Issues - even when "Monitoring Through the DAW" as I do regularly.

One thing to watch out for (burned me for a few months at first), if you use "PDC" and you use a Plug-in that has a high latency, then your whole I/O will experience the same latency. I use either "0 Delay" plug-ins, or stuff like the Waves SSL that is only 1 Sample delay when tracking or anytime I need "Realtime I/O". For Mixing, you can crank the ASIO Latency back up, and get full use of your CPU's power...

Native IS Here - NOW!!! And it is CHEAP!!!!! My PC was under $1000, and my Audio I/O was like $1600 (minus other analog goodness on the front-end Wink

)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:50 pm

Randyman... wrote:

Exactly - a good Native DAW can easily hold its own against a $10,000 TDM Rig, and Digidesign knows this - so they "Cripple" PT M-Powered and PT LE to force you to TDM/HD if you need more than 18 tracks...

Cool

Is that from experience or from your personal estimation? I'm sure there are some ProTools techs here that would debate that. I'm not a huge fan of ProTools. There are lot's of things I like about it and a lot of things that I hate about it but hands down, a well well equipped TDM system will have a higher track count and better processing than your average DAW. Even with the addition of several DSP cards most of which have a single chip, it's hard to compete with an HD card that has 9 chips or and HD3 set up with 27 chips altogether.

As far as PTLE being crippled: for the average person looking to buy an LE system, chances are they are not going to use more than 32 audio tracks.

Remember the days of 24 track digital reel to reel? Would you consider that crippled? How about the old 24 track analogue reels? Is that a crippled system? I think it's only as crippled as the person that uses it. If you need more than 24 tracks to make a decent recording, there's something desperately wrong.

Sure more tracks is nice but necessary? Personally, I wish recordings would go back to the less processed, less produced sound. It's nice to see a band that can live up to their recorded material without a battery of computers backstage.

But that's just my opinion.

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:56 pm

Well, if I had $20,000 for a TDM rig with I/O, then i *Might* consider it. For my needs, Native is plenty powerful (I'm not doing 200 Track Scoring or anything like that).

As-is, my Native setup is incredibly fast (I/O latency of about 3ms round trip), and was incredibly cheap considering the alternative Wink

Not to mention - I wouldn't want to have a $20,000 PT HD rig set up in our Jamroom Surprised

We are currently on the "elbow" of the exponential curve of Moore's Law. Native will only get more insane from here as PC Power skyrockets out of control over the next decade. It has only been in the last 5 years that a PC could Natively pass AND PROCESS audio in "Realtime" - at least for anything more than a few tracks at once. C2D CPU's and interfaces like RME have really opened up lots of doors in this field. The Native flood gates will be opening VERY soon...

PS - So why do YOU think Digidesign limits PT LE/M-Powered to 18 Record Tracks when the M-Audio Fire Bridge will do a full 32 Channels of inputs?

Cool

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:08 pm

Randyman... wrote:

PS - So why do YOU think Digidesign limits PT LE/M-Powered to 18 Record Tracks when the M-Audio Fire Bridge will do a full 32 Channels of inputs?

Cool

Because they are money grubbing bastards. That's why. They want to lock you in to buying a TDM system. Once they have you by the cohones, it's a fight to set yourself free. No one wants to let go of the gear they spent so much money on.

I do agree though that with the advent of newer and better processors, things are changing quickly. Then again, I don't have 6Gs to spend on a dual quad MacPro with 16 gigs of ram and two Terabyte drives.

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:15 pm

Quote:

do agree though that with the advent of newer and better processors, things are changing quickly. Then again, I don't have 6Gs to spend on a dual quad MacPro with 16 gigs of ram and two Terabyte drives.

Exactly. So DIY a PC for MUCH Cheaper (Like I did Wink

) . My sub $1000 DIY DAW is on par with a $3000-$4000 Creation Station in terms of performance and stability. My case was only $60, so they do have me beat there (mine is still pretty quiet). Granted, I do my own "Support", but I wouldn't pay $2000 for ANY kind of support!!! I'm kind of "into" the PC thing anyways...

750GB HD's are only like $200 if you know whee to look (Just bought 5 of them), and a Quad Core CPU is under $300! 2GB of DDR2-800 RAM with low CAS Latency can be had for UNDER $50!!! The MoBo I use was only $90 (Asus P5B-E Open Box). This stuff is really cheap these days...

Running a PC DAW as a PA System + Recorder is one of the coolest things IMO. We don't need no stinking console :p

Cool

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:03 am

Everything is bigger in Texas

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:17 am

It is actually a VERY compact system Wink

. The Amp Rack is the biggest part of the system (minus Speakers and Subs). The rest of the system is a regular ATX PC Case and a 12U SKB Rack. Having a single interface for Mixing the PA/Monitor/Phones and also for Recording is kind of cool, too...

Cool

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