Yet another booth advice needed

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:55 pm

Hi all,
thanks for the info you have here. I did read for about two days before posting, got some questions answered but this one is specific, so here's the room plan:

(Dimensions are approximate.) Basically I have a room 16'x10' devoted to audio work and I want to build a recording booth in it. The best variant I came up with is shown in gray. The purpose of the booth is:
- to isolate from outside noises (airborne, such as voices, monitor playback, etc)
- to eliminate room reflections (i.e. no reverb inside the booth)
I'll record vocals, instruments, voice talkovers, percussion (NO drums) and similar material.
Is it possible to achieve good recordings with such design? How much absorbtion will this booth need on the inside? What would you suggest for the walls? I'm thinking about drywall boards with some sort of foam inside between them (at least these materials are common where I live). What about a window? Thanks in advance and sorry if this is a recurring topic.

Ivan

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:53 pm

if you want some really good ideas go here

lots of spec and Pics and alot of great people who are doing the same thiing as you..

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=3&topicdays=0&start=100

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:52 pm

Perfectly equal sided rooms (e.g. square) are a HUGE no-no.

Alter one wall... if even by a foot and you'll be better off.

Can you get good sounds in a room like that? No...

Altered? - you have a much better shot at it.

How critical are the listening and the recording environments? Do you need to stop noise from getting into/out of these two rooms?

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:37 am

Jerry, thanks for the link!

Make it non-square -- thanks, I will. Don't know why I didn't think about it. Smile

No, I don't need to isolate the bigger room, it would be too much work -- it's accepted as it is. The booth must have minimal sound of its own, everything I record will be close miked and should sound so. I know about the modes in a small room but there must be a way to tame them. Again, soundproofing the booth is only against background noise, computer fans, birds outside the window, etc. I don't aim to get super pro quality out of this project. A better word is 'passable'. Smile

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:26 am

Understood.. operative word is "passable".

I know you are limited by the door on the one wall. So, taking the other wall out some more is your only option, agreed?

Double wall construction is ideal, but probably not practical.

Staggerd stud is probably a more practical solution. In a staggerd stud wall, you use a larger top and bottom plate. (US measurements would be a 2x6 or 2x8.) You then use standard studs (2x4 - US). The studs are alternated to the opposite edges.

Fill the cavity with insulation and cover with as much gypsum board as you dare... 2-4 layers on each side. Here's a link to several types of wall construction and their common STC's.

Not to insult, but the higher the STC, the more isolation can be expected. Of course, you need to approach this as a complete system. The room will only be as good and effective as the weakest link.

The best rule is; if air can get in or out, so can sound.

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:46 pm

Thanks MadMax, that was just the kind of information I needed. The link to wall types is excellent. Yes, I know what is STC (no offense taken Smile

), I remember reading something about building standards... 50 seems to be more than enough for my purposes.

Do you happen to have similar plans for constructing windows in staggered stud walls? Is there a common method of passing cables between the booth and the outer world?

What about ventilation? Maybe in this particular case it would be best to just open the door every 20 minutes...

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:02 am

Oh boy... window in a staggered stud wall..

It really shouldn't be any different than a standard wall, but as small as the room is, why would you put yourself to the trouble?

I would MAYBE put one in the door, but that's going to complicate the door construction and drive it's costs up. Why not consider a little webcam system? 2 Webcam's and you're done!

Just run the cable in the same duct/pipe that your audio will go in.

There isn't an actual single "common" way tp pass the cables from inside to outside... Once again, there are several ways to do this... You can create a pipe system that has at least two 90 degree turns, and stuff insulation in the ends to make it "air tight".

The worst thing is to use a straight through connection. It's the easiest to make, but it's also the shortest route for sound to travel.

I'll look around and see what else I can scrounge up...

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:00 am

Ok MadMax, after reading for two days I'm confused even more. Everything related to acoustics seems to hold a potential can of worms. Smile

Let me state the problem in its original form. The goal is to record vocals for demos, commercials, voiceovers, etc. No great quality needed, I know such recordings are accepted on radio (at least here) and that's fine. I'm not trying to beat Pink Floyd's production. I have one room for this. Recording right away is not possible because computer and other noises leak in. Besides, this room's inherent reverb is awful. Besides, I don't want to turn off monitors, air conditioner, etc. during recording.

Given these conditions, is isolation booth the answer? If not, what else?

Thanks for your patience.

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:41 am

ivan_L wrote:

Ok MadMax, after reading for two days I'm confused even more. Everything related to acoustics seems to hold a potential can of worms. Smile

Let me state the problem in its original form. The goal is to record vocals for demos, commercials, voiceovers, etc. No great quality needed, I know such recordings are accepted on radio (at least here) and that's fine. I'm not trying to beat Pink Floyd's production. I have one room for this. Recording right away is not possible because computer and other noises leak in. Besides, this room's inherent reverb is awful. Besides, I don't want to turn off monitors, air conditioner, etc. during recording.

Given these conditions, is isolation booth the answer? If not, what else?

Yes it is. Vocal booths are a compromise. If you are happy with single stud wall isolation, then use it. The decision is yours. You have been given the options.

Vocal booths have terrible acoustics. You have been told that here. The deader the booth, the better it is. You do less treatment and it will degrade your recordings.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

Andre

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:49 pm

ivan_L wrote:

- to isolate from outside noises (airborne, such as voices, monitor playback, etc)
- to eliminate room reflections (i.e. no reverb inside the booth)

In my opinion you'll do much better putting your time and effort into treating the main room, rather than building a tiny booth. Just use headphones when recording. Besides avoiding the boxy sound from a small booth, the treatment will also help you mix better.

--Ethan

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:31 am

Thanks for the answers. Ethan, last year I downloaded and read and watched all instructional materials from your web-site -- THANKS for doing what you do! Smile

Treating the main room addresses point two (room acoustics) and what about number one (noises)? After treating they will be quieter but not completely eliminated.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:11 am

Treating the room will not prevent noise from coming in, it will only control sound inside the room.

Preventing noise from going inside the room has to do with the mass /stiffness of the walls.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:14 pm

ivan_L wrote:

Treating the main room addresses point two (room acoustics) and what about number one (noises)? After treating they will be quieter but not completely eliminated.

What about it? You have been told in this thread about thicker/heavier walls. Give more information so we develop the discusion to you needs/wants/budget.

BTW there is no soundproofing, only sound isoation. Some sound will always get through. STC is suitable for full range music, as the lows are the most difficult to control.

Andre

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:24 pm

Well, I think you both did not quite get my point. If you record and mix in one (acoustically treated) room, how do you keep noises like computer fans and mouse clicks from getting in the mic? Anyway, thanks for the answers.

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:54 pm

ivan_L wrote:

Well, I think you both did not quite get my point. If you record and mix in one (acoustically treated) room, how do you keep noises like computer fans and mouse clicks from getting in the mic? Anyway, thanks for the answers.

While recording, don't click the mouse.

Put devices with fans etc. in isolation boxes.

Andre

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