Is outboard reverb *really* better than plugins?

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:04 pm

I've been told that outboard reverb is better than even the best plugins. But is it *that* much better? If I spend $2,500 on a t.c. electronics Reverb 4000, for example, will it sound a lot better than the best plugin reverbs (like Waves, for example)?

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:40 pm

Yes!!!!

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:00 am

What would the margin of difference have to be for you to say that an outboard reverb was "that" much better?

I mean, if you like plug in reverbs and they are doing exactly the job you want them to do and doing it well, then I would imagine that the difference would need to be huge for you to think that the outboard was "that" much better.

There are some good plug-in reverbs but my brain thinks that the outboards sound better for whatever reason.

Convolution reverbs can be the best of both worlds and them's be plug-ins.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:58 am

It has been my experience that outboard reverbs such as the TC-2000, 3000 and 4000 sound better than any plug-in. There are some very good sounding reverb plug-ins but hardware sounds better overall. If these hardware devices are correctly used they can actually approximate the sound of a real hall or church to the point where I can use them to augment the sound of a classical recording session and not feel as if they are doing anything strange to the music. I have never been able to do that with plugin reverbs although I have tried on many occasions.

Your experiences and others on this board may be different.

Best of luck!

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:43 am

it comes down to the dedicated CPU for the outboard reverbs.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:32 pm

I'll weigh in on the opposite.

I think plug-in verbs are very valuable today and can do wonderful things in comparison to outboard units.

It also depends what you want to do with it.

The TC4000 is a great unit that can work beautifully with longer reverbs, but cheaper box reverbs simply don't stack up. Also, the dedicated CPUs don't offer that much (if any) performance gain over current PC CPUs and dedicated PCI card solutions.

I've found a few plug-in reverbs which are quite hard to rival if not impossible by outboard units. SIR and Altiverb are amazing. What I like about SIR is the Lexicon 960L impulses that I have for it plus the amazing hall impulses that are publically available (and several I've made myself).

The fact that I can use more than 2 channels and the lack of needed conversions from higher sample rates helps a LOT too.

Don't get me wrong - mega-buck outboard units are great and even the best plug-ins struggle to keep up, but when it comes down to it - a good plug-in will spank even the better inexpensive reverb units.

(Tom - you should try SIR - it will change the way you think about plug-in reverbs. I've used it on some VERY high profile clients and they LOVE it!)

J

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:55 pm

While you're at it, what is the difference between "regular" reverb, if there is such a thing, plate reverb, and convolution reverb?

Spring reverb I understand.

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:47 pm

Cucco wrote:

I'll weigh in on the opposite.

I think plug-in verbs are very valuable today and can do wonderful things in comparison to outboard units.

It also depends what you want to do with it.

The TC4000 is a great unit that can work beautifully with longer reverbs, but cheaper box reverbs simply don't stack up. Also, the dedicated CPUs don't offer that much (if any) performance gain over current PC CPUs and dedicated PCI card solutions.

I've found a few plug-in reverbs which are quite hard to rival if not impossible by outboard units. SIR and Altiverb are amazing. What I like about SIR is the Lexicon 960L impulses that I have for it plus the amazing hall impulses that are publicly available (and several I've made myself).

The fact that I can use more than 2 channels and the lack of needed conversions from higher sample rates helps a LOT too.

Don't get me wrong - mega-buck outboard units are great and even the best plug-ins struggle to keep up, but when it comes down to it - a good plug-in will spank even the better inexpensive reverb units.

(Tom - you should try SIR - it will change the way you think about plug-in reverbs. I've used it on some VERY high profile clients and they LOVE it!)

J

I have used it but it is always freaking out my computer. It is a very nice reverb and I agree it is one of the best BUT the code and my computer don't get along too well together. I can use it once but if I try and change anything it dumps my application and I have to restart it. (mostly tried it with WL and Samplitude)

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:36 pm

Taxman:

Quote:

"regular" reverb

- in FX units, these are created by stacking multiple delayed samples of the original signal, with changes in amplitude, phase, frequency and time between delays.

Quote:

plate reverb

- true plate reverb is simply a large sheet of metal that vibrates when an audio signal is sent to it via a transducer, they are created in an FX unit in the same fashion as the "regular" verbs.

Quote:

convolution reverb

- uses impulse responses created from real space mixed into the original signal.

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:40 pm

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:

I have used it but it is always freaking out my computer. It is a very nice reverb and I agree it is one of the best BUT the code and my computer don't get along too well together. I can use it once but if I try and change anything it dumps my application and I have to restart it. (mostly tried it with WL and Samplitude)

Well, that sucks! Such is the nature of the computer beasts. Just as I tried that Izotope set and it crashed on my machine. Ideally, things should just work, eh?

I am curious to see the new PCM 9X series from Lexicon. It's based on the old PCM system but uses USB or Firewire to act as a plug-in inside the box using the chips, etc. outside the box. I might be very interested in owning one of these!

I dumped my old PCM90s since they couldn't do higher sample rates and I wasn't content with multiple AD/DA conversions. Color me excited.

Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:23 pm

My Lexicon 300 beats the pants off my Waves Rennaissance Verb every day.

The IR stuff is the first plug-in verb that I've actually found useable, so it seems the gap is shrinking.

That said, I've got a Sony R7 on the way which I'm really excited for!

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:29 am

Jbrax wrote:

Yes!!!!

+1

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:42 am

Outboard reverb has it's uses. Frankly, it's processing is much faster, rather than weighing down your computer with VST processing in real-time! Then again, they both have their uses in different applications.

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:47 am

the R7 is nice, but I am a real sucker for a TC 6000, just to bad the chances of me ever working with one again are slim.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:20 am

I prefer Altiverb (v 6) over my TC Electronic M2000.

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