My Quiet Recordings

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:12 pm

Discrete-
Your point is taken. However, would it not have been wiser to simply search this forum as advised and then revive one of the previous threads rather than to start yet another thread on loudness issues?

This is, in the truest spirit, continuing and furthering discussion afterall. Starting over from ground zero is not.

No offense to the OP at all.

J.

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:18 pm

Quote:

Massive Mastering? Maybe you should change your name to Dead Horse Mastering. I get what you're saying and you obviously know what you're talking about, but if you think a question is below you or redundant, then why post a condescending reply? Not tryin to start any arguments, but posts like that make people who may be talented engineers-to-be feel "this big." I don't get it.

It's in the stickies, it's in the search engine and it's *still* covered seemingly every other day here.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel - this big - I'm simply graphically expressing the views of many of us here that are tired of the same thing, over and over and over, most of which has little or nothing to do with mastering in general.

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:02 pm

John, I look forward to your dead horse posts, actually.

They put a smile on my face...

Very Happy

See?

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:41 pm

I have a very cool one somewhere -- Gotta find it... A stately European gentleman swiftly striking his steed with an English whip as he lay on the ground... Black and white, set back probably mid-1800's or so...

If I find it, maybe I'll just upload it and rename them back and forth every once in a while just to mix things up a bit.

Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:43 am

Discrete wrote:

Boy, every post on this thread is either incomplete and poorly thought out or arrogant and condescending. Neither of these characteristics are conducive to constructive discussion.

I think what 5th Quarter needs is a thorough definition of what mastering is and then maybe some tips on how to do it in a "project studio" capacity. IE. in Wavelab or something like that.
I don't know what he does and doesn't know already, but maybe he's working with tracks that he hasn't even normalized properly. I'm just saying, this thread lacks exploration of the topic.

Massive Mastering? Maybe you should change your name to Dead Horse Mastering. I get what you're saying and you obviously know what you're talking about, but if you think a question is below you or redundant, then why post a condescending reply? Not tryin to start any arguments, but posts like that make people who may be talented engineers-to-be feel "this big." I don't get it.

I really wish you had explored the question of why so many mixes (masters) are so loud these days. It's an industry trend to be this much louder than the next guy. And all at the expense of the other qualities of the music. You could say much more about this in more depth than I could, but you chose to be vague and a bit pretentious. Why respond at all?

I don't mean to single you out on discussion board ethics, but I see this all the time. Somebody who just wants to know something posts a question and 5 people take the time to flame them and tell them to "search for the threads." Well, that's fine for some things. But the point of discussion boards is continuing discussion. If we just stopped posting because every topic had been addressed and is searchable, well, this site would die.

So, in conclusion. Let's talk nice and be constructive. Tolerate those who know less than you and respect those who want to teach you more.

(Steps off Soapbox)

discrete;

um.. it is a bit mystical nowadays. the oldest answer had to do
with the media transfer to vinyl. the vinyl could never sound
the same as the master tape. so this was
going to require a completely separate
skillset from mixing.

now with digital...

people who had that old skillset who's purpose is not needed
much anymore found themselves still in demand.

why? that would be a very long history lesson.
i think a combination of several reasons all
centered around the m.e.'s special
abilities to handle music...

and the unfortunately unnatural characteristics
of the digital media, subject to this creeping
digititus... causing all kinds of religious
beliefs to spring up around the
vacuum tube or valve.

some say it is transformers that make tubes "warm",
not the tube; and assuming that things are
working correctly the sound would be
indescernable from solid state.

so some of the questions people might ask a mastering engineer:
"do you use tubes? aren't they warmer? i read
that in a magazine."

and there is a whole other aura around tape. should tape
be part of the mastering process? or is a tape
emulation enough? or needed at all? or what
is it about tape? it is eq, and dynamics?
and what else? would take years to
figure out. has been that way.

ask dave hill or rupert n !

(maybe i should buy one of those boxes, but
i digress!) what i do is not explainable, it
is based all on judgement calls, if i
am not there to man my own
gear, i doubt that my own
mastering techniques
could work.

mastering is not easy. no way for an average home studio musician to
do professional level mastering. that is not like looking down the
nose, it is just the difference between the top m.e.s and
the average m.e... just like with mix engineers.

bernie grundman is a better than me, michael fossenkemper is better
than i am, and so is john scrip... etc. ok? how do they do it?
they are unique people! that is how i think they do it.

what makes something better? it is an opinion. that something is
"loud", or plays back sounding like there was some
engineering snafu is a perception. if your client
is "my bloody valentine", then they should
get what they want. that's the job.

some of the more stylin' garage rock dudes are actually looking for
their mix to sound trashed! sure. yes. no problem.

so the answer to: "why the m.e. did that?" is usually:
because it made the client happy.

jeff dinces

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:02 pm

Cucco wrote:

Discrete-
However, would it not have been wiser to simply search this forum as advised and then revive one of the previous threads rather than to start yet another thread on loudness issues?

This is, in the truest spirit, continuing and furthering discussion afterall. Starting over from ground zero is not.
J.

You're right. The potential value of searching the wealth of information that has already been posted on forums is something that cannot be understated.

I meant nothing personal towards you Massive Mastering. I like the Dead Horse graphic too. It was just an example in my trying to picture a Utopian version of a discussion forum. The truth is, people will always ask questions that they were too lazy to search for the answers to and this will always get on the nerves of people that consistently answer them.

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:17 pm

To quote GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle"!

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:54 pm

bent wrote:

To quote GI Joe, "Knowing is half the battle"!

Ha! Leave it to GI Joe to sum it all up perfectly for us.

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