Mics for a Songwriter

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:04 am

Hi,

I tried to A/B some mics at the local stores but they never let me A/B all at once so here i am. I am assembling a small home studio in a house we rent so it is not acoustically treated.

I want principally to be able to record my acoustic guitars and Male and Female voices. (I'll record Violin / Sax but not a priority right now although if the same mics could work that would be great).

Music Style ranges from Folk, Pop to Rock.

So far i have:
Monitors: Dynaudio BM6A
Audio Interface: TC Konnekt 48

Budget: up to $1000 but of course the less i spend the better as this is a hobby Smile

What do you think of the following combinations?

CHOICE BUDGET:
- Vocals: Studio Projects B1, $119.99
- Guitars:
Shure SM81, $349.97
OR Studio Projects C4, $360.00
OR anything cheaper like the Shure SM57?
CHOICE MORE HIGH-END: (is it worth it?/will we hear a difference?)
- Vocals: Audio-Technica AT4050, $480.00
- Guitars: ??
CHOICE : MORE PERSONALITY??: (again worth it?)
- Studio Projects TB1, $299.99
- Studio Projects T3, $599.99
- BLUE Bluebird, $299.99
- BLUE Baby Bottle, $499.97
- Audio-Technica AT4047/SV, $549.97

I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp?

Thanks in advance for your feedback

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:02 am

Singer-songwriter's aren't allowed to have microphones. If you had one, then they would all want one and then we would have to kill you all. Singer-songwriter's should only be allowed to have Shure SM 58's. Because those are not microphones. They are actually hammers disguised as microphones and nobody has ever been the wiser.

Ms. Mike Hammer

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 am

For guitar I'd go with the SM81. Very safe choice.

For vocals its a matter of matching the voice to the mic to the preamp. Your interface has decent preamps so it's just a matter of experimenting with mics. And since you are talking about multiple vocalists, that may mean a number of mics. Remy has a point. Unless you've tried it and not liked it, an SM58 sounds good on a lot of voices. Get one as the bedrock of your collection. You can always use it for live performances.

Then start looking at the large diaphragm condensers on your list. Condensers will have more high end than the 58. Problem is that it's not always a really nice high end - especially combined with individual voices. If you can get a local store to work with you (or an online retailer) take the mics home on approval, return anything that doesn't sound better than what you already have, pay the restocking fee or return shipping as money well spent, and move on.

Also, you have room in your budget for some acoustic treatment. There are some bass traps available (or you can build yourself) that look good and are portable. They are good for listening to music, and practicing music, as well as recording music. Check out the acoustics forum.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:02 am

Like BR stated, you WILL need to treat the room. It doesn't need to be permanent, you can put up some panels and heavy blankets. An overstuffed sofa and area rugs can help, too. If you don't do this, I wouldn't even think of popping for an LD condenser. They have too wide a pattern, their off-axis is too colored, and that will just sound bad in a poor environment. This is why the 58 may be the key here-it's designed to reject ambient noise to minimize feedback. THis works for recording, too.
And the SM81 is the go-to mic for guitars, many other stringed instruments. I have a couple of AT4047's, they are great on all sorts of voices, very full and smooth. Also good on alto/tenor saxes. As for preamps, unless you want a cheap tube pre as a fuzz box for the mics, don't bother with the SP thing. For acoustic instruments, as well as vocals, the Grace 101 is the hands-down winner here. Very transparent, clean and detailed. Even a 58 will sound better through it.
Let's do the math:
SM58...$100
SM81...$349
Grace..$560
Totals..$1010.00
So far, you have some nice gear. Definitely worth keeping and expanding upon. Save up for the 4047, you won't regret it. Good luck.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:58 am

I have not tried the TC Konnekt 48, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is that the pres are pretty good. The Grace (and many other pres in that price range) would be a step up. But I'd suggest buying something you don't have (like bass traps / acoustic treatment) before upgrading something that's pretty good without having maximized its potential.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:53 pm

I tried a PG Shure on the Konnekt 48 and the levels where really low. Will it be better with the SM58? Also any experience with the Beta 58A or the Beta 87x?

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:12 am

You blew it, my friend. Asking the above question was like saying,"I just drove a Kia. Will it beat an Acura?" HELL, NO!!! Shure PG mics are cheap crap! Whoever is steering you towards them is a thief, a liar, and a scammer!
Yes, they have lower output than a condenser. That isn't a bad thing. Do your homework! Pop for a 58!!!!!!!! And stay away from whoever tells you that the PG is "as good as" the SM line. They are LIARS!!!!!!
As far as the Beta series is concerned, this depends on the source material and the model mic. For example, the Beta 87a works well on female pop vocalists. Not on male rock singers. Or male folk singers. Or female rock screamers. Or female folk balladeers. Or male jazz crooners....get the point? Get a "REAL" SM58. Accept no substitutes!
FYI: The Beta line tends to be less forgiving a mic, with a tendency to sound "harsh" with singers with bigger "lungs". Some models DO have the advantage of having even less ambient noise pick-up, but at a price. Stick to the 58...SM58. You'll be glad that you did!

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:26 pm

CAD M-179
CAD GXL3000

Both are definitely budget, but they have multi-pattern options and the M-179 has very low self noise (the better of the two... or more highly regarded).

I've read good things about how neutral it is (which is good if using it for multiple sources).

I just purchased the GXL3000 yesterday for $69 on special at MF, don't know too much about it yet... might be junk... but just thought I'd throw those two recommendations out there, take it with a grain of salt... I'm a newb.

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:40 pm

moonbaby, I think the question was not "Will the PG be better than the SM58?", rather it was "Will using a 58 give higher levels than the PG, which was really low?"

Or in your analogy...
"I just drove a Kia, and it wasn't a smooth ride. Will driving an Acura be better?"

No argument on the points you made, though. Thumbs Up

Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:52 pm

Everybody should have sm57 and/or 58. The Beta's aren't worth the extra expense.

Don't go cheap on the condenser mic. The cheap ones tend to be harsh in the mids and high frequency range for vocals. If money is a real issue then by all means keep lowend, be careful and try to find one that fits your voice. The preamp also makes a big difference because it is part of an equation.

Same for preamps. I would rather have a good one without the bells and whistles and fake tube circuits. Go for an RNP or Grace 101 than slightly more expensive or even cheaper trash.

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:57 am

Quote:

I tried a PG Shure on the Konnekt 48 and the levels where really low.

Here's my take - the PG is a cheap mic that works in a pinch (live sound on a budget, primarily), but if you want the good stuff, the SM57, 58, 81, A/T 3000 and 4000 series, Senn 421 and 441 (among many others) are quality mics - and workhorses of our industry.

The Shure SM series of microphones are found in damn near EVERY studio and broadcast facility in the world. There's a reason for that, and it 'aint marketing.

There's a signature sound that one can expect to achieve with these mics, and they meet that expectation every time.

Plus the added benefit, as Remy said - the 57's and 58's double as hammers!

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:53 am

And of course the SM57 has been the official microphone of the President of the United States for decades. Every Secret Service agent has been trained in fourteen ways to kill an assassin with an SM57. None of these methods harms the microphone.

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:14 pm

thanks for your input guys. I am doing this Blindfold Test:
http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200508.mic_shootout.html#

Let me know if you know other tests like this.
The result promises to be interesting. I'll come back later.

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:29 pm

The listening room has a few but is more geared for preamps.

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/sessions.htm

Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:41 pm

Quote:

ou blew it, my friend. Asking the above question was like saying,"I just drove a Kia. Will it beat an Acura?" HELL, NO!!!

The analogy is interesting as i drove many cars when i needed to replace my car. And in fact i chose a Volvo S40 as it was the best value for money in this category for me. The Accura and Audi were much more expensive and i found it was not justified. The KIA and others seemed like toys and not safe.

I'm a big believer in the power of the witch and not the wand. I am not looking for the holy grail product that will make hits for me. I am looking for a decent and consistent "paintbrush". I don't want to buy cheap stuff that would be of no use later, as they would cost more to replace with something decent.

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