How Joshua Recording Studios Prefers to Track Drums!

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:28 pm

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From my experiances, people that talk trash about others dont really know what they are talking about in the first place.

I beg your pardon?

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I hope you guys got some questions answered out of this tutorial.

I didn't have any Wink

but I do now. How old is this piece of work? I see "drums" and I see "triggers" but I didn't see electronic drums. I know that myself and many a few others use them.

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:36 pm

Joshua, hell of a first post...

I don't really care one way or the other about what you posted at the top of the thread - we've all been there and done that - but I do take a bit of offense to the following statement a few posts down:

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Any drummer that would be upset that you are making him better by tightning his playing is foolish.

In this post you're talking about pretty much all of my clients.
If I started correcting their mistakes like you mention here, not only would they take offense to it, they'd simply call it a do-over and redo their tracks from the top. It's very, very rare to find drummers around here that wouldn't take such "tightening" of their playing as a personal attack.
I know I would.
Of course, there are exceptions - bands such as Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, etc. And of course the current string of Hollywood Records acts Sad

...

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:41 pm

Jeremy, you said:

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3 - Why double track a guitar scratch? This makes NO sense. It takes (at least) twice as long and the only benefit is that it's LOUDER?

The other benefit is that we'd make a few extra bucks on the clock!!!
Laughing

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:42 pm

Producers leaning on your shoulders can be a motivator to ruin what you have a passion for.
An amateur band that comes in, records a track and leaves isn't gonna enjoy the idea of having their drums hacked to bits. A big name band who needs to have perfect drums has no choice but to have their kick, snare, toms and cymbals I guess, replaced by samples.
The only reason I'd replace our drummer's sound is cause the odds of me getting a good kick sound are slim...

Also, bent, is that the clock mentioned in the "most essential gear for tracking" thread, the one which doesnt tick, tock or cuckoo...just spins at 1rpm? lol...

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:48 pm

Yep, you can find them right next to the non-squeaking chairs and finger-ease.

"Bent, cleanup on aisle three."

Suspended Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Ohio

Why? I dont understand why you guys are so defensive and are attacking me when I have done nothing but share with you the way I do things. If its not useful to you then dont use it, but dont tell me I'm wrong. This method works great for me and as long as it keeps working I will continue to use it.

Thanks

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:05 pm

I guess we wouldn't mind so much if the title was called:
My Technique of Drum Replacement.
Frankly this is a fairly proven and good technique for doing such, and is layed out here in fairly clear language.
So perhaps we all just got off on the wrong foot due to the title of the post.
But to suggest that this is the way all "Pro's" record is, well, it's just naive.
No doubt it is popular among some genre's of music. In the same way that Hip Hop pretty much uses drum machines and loops. And if you're doing bluegrass music, it's helpful to have a fiddle player in the group.
But when I listen to my fav CD's I usually want to hear how the musician's are playing. How they interact with each other, and how they get sounds out of their instruments. You're not going to replace Buddy Rich's drums or John Bonnom or Bill Bruford, you want to hear these guys play. Mistakes and all, because their mistakes are better than most players best efforts.

Interestingly, I've had to do this occasionally to projects that came out of Recording schools like Full Sail etc. As long as they recorded to a clik we replaced the drums and all was right with the world once again.

So , yes, it's a good post on how to replace drums, but it's a bad post on the propa' way to run a session.

But in the end, as long as your clients are happy, maybe that's all that really matters?

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:09 pm

I smell ethics and morals and political junk around the corner...

Suspended Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Ohio

Ok, I will answer your questions and then I will let you keep slandering my name!

1. I never said I was a pro, I said it was the secrets of the pros! Get it straight! I am still learning everyday and will continue to.

2. Last time I checked people don’t ask to see your degree to master a song, either your good at it or your not, kind of like playing an instrument!

3. What gear is necessary to do mastering, most of my work is done with plug ins that model out board gear. So why do I need the gear?

4. My drum micing skills are the same as yours I'm sure that is if you’re doing it right. This is what I prefer, not what I have to do!

5. Obviously you didn't read the whole post, I record double scratch guitars because 1. it does make it louder in the headphones because of headroom, and 2 because it sounds better. You have to hear the scratch tracks for a while so why not make them sound good.

6. I never said that people didn't get approvals of the recording artist. But do you think it never happens, you know it does.

7. I am here to help when I can and listen and learn, maybe you should try both as well.

8. I am not trying to gain the respect of anyone, just trying to maybe help someone by sharing what I've learned. You could at least appreciate that!

Suspended Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Ohio

Hey Natural,

I appreciate you being open mind about the subject and I suppose your right on the post name, maybe it should have been drum replacement, but dont the pro's do drum replacement? Everyone I have ever worked along side of that was any good did. Anyways, you guys could learn a thing or two from Natural! Smart Guy!

Thanks

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:26 pm

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2 - Your methods may work for you, but the reality is, you have to replace your drums with samples because the way you're recording drums sucks.

Classic.

Anyway, I know that Gene Hoglan replaces his drums with samples(I think he kind of pioneered this) but I don't think he does it to synch his playing. If a drummer can't play on beat there is a problem. When he gets on stage then what? Let him play on practice pads and run a sequencer to the pa?

Anyway, I think what I was trying to get at in my first post(which I guess was lost in translation) is that there are people here who own, work at and maintain high end studios. No, I'm not talking about multiple FP10's.

There may not be any grammy award winners here, that I know of at least, but I'm pretty sure you have heard at least some of the work people have done here whether you knew it or not.

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:33 pm

Thanks for the props yo.

A lot of metal bands from the 80's had their drums replaced. It was a phase we all went through. They also had a ton of reverb because digital reverb became cost effective around that time.
Times change, Some engineers still want to replace drums, many don't. many do it when they have to. Some drummers like replacement for their style of music, some don't.

Go through these forums here, you'll see that everyone's needs are different. Very different. What works for some people is death to others.

It's always helpful to 'Know your audience'

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:47 pm

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Secrets of the Pro’s

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I am writing this article to maybe help some of you out there with questions you may have about pro recording and how the crap they get such awesome sounds and why your stuff doesn’t sound as good

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

My, what big brass nads you have Goldielocks!

Josh, I 'm sorry dude, but I gotta call bullshit here. The rest of the crew here is pretty civil, restrained and will prefer to take the high road.

Me?!?... I just call it the way it is.

Yes, your "method" is one way to do stuff... and in my opinion, it's exactly what the hell is wrong with our industry. It's the lack of knowledge of music and performance, that goobers like you produce the tripe and garbage that's polluting the airwaves today.

I cannot fathom how in the hell you possibly think that what you put out of your studio is anything that resembles actual music. It's plasticine, lifeless, garbage that's unfit to even line the bottom of my cat's litterbox. But to each his/her own.

Sound replacement, beat detecting and autotuning are for slackassed no talents on BOTH sides of the glass. I take that back... they have their place.... just not in the actual music as entertainment field... Maybe the movies, commercials and the odd video game.

Why don't you try it this way... set up 4 or 5 mics and put the band in the room and hit the red button? BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW?!?

I'm willing to bet you could no more record a blues band or a jazz quartet and have it sound like a captured performance than Ralph Nader has a chance at winning the Presidency.

The actual ART of music is in the subtle and the not so subtle accidents and variations of the performance. Oh wait... you already KNOW that...

And don't you dare even try to tell me that I'm not open to new ideas and concepts. Just the opposite is true. YOU are the one who ought to try to make your engineering come up to professional standards. Maybe you should stop taking on projects that require such massive editing.

My clients know that I expect them to give it their very best... just as they expect me to give it MY very best to capture and present their work.

Instead of sound replacing the drums... try investing in a coupla' decent kits... and have a professional come in and tune them. If the drummer can't handle the part... either have the band hire a session cat, or tell them to take the session elsewhere.

Stop screwing up this industry with your lifeless trash and learn the actual art of recording and mixing that truly captures the performance. That's my opinion and I stick by it... just as your ilk stick by the method that's clearly destroyed the actual performance value of real musicianship and artistry.

Suspended Joined: Mar 05, 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Ohio

somebodys mad at some body and I am thinking its not me! Who did you wrong man? I mean seriously , chill out!

I promise, you dont have to replace your drums, you can just settle for less than perfect, I mean heart felt, lol. What a joke, this guy!

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:08 pm

how do you let the drummer groove with the rest of the band? more importantly, how do you let the GUITARIST who does the initial track groove with the rest of the band?

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