Lets be honest here....It doesnt take a rocket surgeon to figure out when to replace and when NOT to replace any tracks in ANY recording. One listen will usually do the trick.
THE ONLY TIME YOU NEED TO REPLACE ANYTHING....is when the artist is unavailable, or the studio dudes have all gone home and theres a budget with a schedule.
As a 'Pro' it is not the BEST way to build a song. It NEVER will be. It is a way, just not the best......
Perfection is not necessary if the song is great, the performance inspired, and the musicianship squarely rooted in professionalism.
I agree with Max. I always do. Just because you accept money from others to operate your gear in a service does not make you an expert. It doesnt give you a ticket to the 'hear me orate olympics' simply because you own studio recording gear.
I looked at your list. MOST of the folks on here have twice as much gear as you, and still they come here asking questions, giving opinions when they care to, help when they can, but mostly they read and learn. They dont belly up with their crap hanging out and suppose to 'educate' folks they've never met, never had conversation with, never had any sort of interchange with what-so-ever.
And then when those that REALLY DO KNOW call you on your "SECRETS OF THE PROS" and point out methodology that conflicts with YOURS yet is as viable and real, you think you're being picked on.
Ya see, being part of a community, (which we all are and especially those who have answered you), isnt all about shoving your opinions at people from the start. Its about hanging around and getting to know one another and learning to trust what points are coming from them. Its about sharing, and yes, you're obviously trying to do that, You just arent understanding the subtleties and the community practices established here long before you bought your first set of semi-crappy monitors.
I could give a large Rats-ass about what methods work for you. I pity those that are giving up their budgets if this is all you got to offer them. In my room theres one hard and fast rule........ "That sucked......Do it AGAIN....."
BTW./ The SONGWRITER lays down the foundation for the feel. These are the 'pre-production tracks'....You've heard of em.....havent you??? Any project thats going to become something more than a Demo needs to get there through a definite plan of procedure towards an end PRODUCT. Thats when you get to record the rehearsals. As an engineer you learn at these settings who to rely on for tempo, who has the best pitch, who has the groove solidly set in them.....
THEN you record the songs. Generally you wont have to replace anything if everyone knows their parts. Got a songwriter who can write and sing but cant play a lick??? Studio musicians. Hire em....fire em ....get em a cola or some tea....Whatever it takes.
If you THINK you are really MASTERING through the use of plugs you are living a dream of your own construct.
Hey....know what....WE'VE got a Mastering Forum right here at R.O. I suggest you go in there and repeat that crap out loud. Most of the Mastering Engineers that reside there DO have many awards, most have their businesses' ads in all the Majors.....yep, they're really pros. Go ahead. You'll fit right in.
You think your ass is chapped from this bunch?????
_________________ da moderAtor....proprietor of drool'n dogg rekords...pope-of-recording, the spitboys church of freedom
bent Moderator
Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 1672
Location: Cocoa Beach, Fl
Dude....We ALL understand exactly what you're doing.....not everybody agrees with it being some secret formula for professional nirvana.
You didnt invent this.....I did about 35 years ago!
I'm just saying.....along with a LOT of my colleagues, that your methodology leaves a lot to be desired as far as bringing the proper Kwaa to tracking.
And you sound a lot like a troll.
Did I mention that I AM the designated troll killer here at R.O.???
Tell ya what. You have the ability to edit your own posts. Suppose you go back and EDIT that frikkin TITLE to something a little less .............errr........challenging to the sensibilities of the general populace around here and I'll let you live one more day.
Capice?
(could this be JP in disguise??????)
_________________ da moderAtor....proprietor of drool'n dogg rekords...pope-of-recording, the spitboys church of freedom
I dont want to live , please kill me now! If you guys really knew me you'd know I never meant to upset anyone and I had all the good intentions of becoming a part of this forum family. I do strive to learn everyday and I have read every single one of your guys reply's. I am really just kind of speechless to find such a rude group of people that are suppossed to be here for help. So if this is what its all about, then please remove me Mr. Dave.
As a moderator of this forum, it is my duty to make sure that you are welcomed to RO and that all sides of the party are being appropriately civil and that the conversation does not stray outside of the topic at hand.
1 - Welcome to RO.
2 - Here's the rest of that stuff-
The biggest problem here isn't what you said (although, it's way off base), it's how and when you said it.
It's incredibly presumptious, rude, arrogant and ballsy to walk into a forum that you obviously have not observed for a while and have your first post be an authoritative post in which you claim to be letting out the secrets of the pros but are merely telling one way (a convoluted one at that) of doing things. Add to that the fact that several pros have already come into this topic and denounced this, you tell them that they don't know what they're doing or talking about and tell them they should keep an open mind.
Take a step back and listen to yourself for just a minute - this is really one of the most arrogant things I've seen in a while.
The reality is, any flaming you get is well-deserved.
Add to that the fact that your suggestions do NOT represent the "pro" way of doing things and by no means should be the course by which younger/less experienced engineers aspire to work.
I'll let this debacle continue for a bit, but if it looks like we're going in circles, then I'll shut the post down.
I do hope you'll take a step back and see why everyone is getting so pissed. It's not that we don't have an open mind. It's not that we don't know the "pro" way of doing things. It's that, about every 3 months, some jackass pops up on this board claiming to know stuff they don't. You're the jackass du jour.
You can salvage this though and have a happy, healthy life on RO. I should know. I joined a long time ago and had several "arrogant" introductions like yours. I also got slapped down from some of the people on this here board (one of whom IS a multi-Grammy award winning engineer - anyone interested in knowing who this is who forehand and backhand pimp slapped me - PM me).
As I've gotten older, I've discovered that arrogance of any kind in a public forum is about as useless as tits on a bull.
Stick around, pay attention and keep an open mind and you'll grow and learn.
Joshua (and your technique of killing the life in music),
GET A TICKET TO THE CLUE BUS, DUDE!
You've gotten your ass cheeks handed to ya' on at least two different forums for posting your "Secrets". Yes, indeed you have.
After having your lungs ripped out at one forum, you then come here and pose as some "insider with the goods" of how it's done by the big boys.
You say you strive to learn every day.... So why haven't you learned that what you presented, in the manner you presented it, is just a tad more than being a TROLL!?!
Your "technique" is somewhat acceptable in many circles... namely the high volume rock shops in NYC and LA. This is entirely true. Slippy's Big Blue Meanie is one of the more pervasive of this style... Except they do it cleaner, more legit and it's purpose driven for volume and to keep their doors open to the major labels.
I for one, take serious offense to the method of making records as you describe it.
Do I have gold records on my wall? Nope, and I don't give a rat's ass if I ever do.
Music is a LOT of different things to a LOT of different people. In my corner of the world, (and it's a growing corner BTW) are musicians, producers, studio owners, promoters and fans, that are tired of lifeless, sterile drivel.
Genre's that not only except less than "absolute perfection", but also expect it, are still plenty alive and well; Jazz, blues, gospel, bluegrass, new grass, country, rock, regae, indian, middle eastern and folk are just a few of them.
These styles of music require that musicians play with heart and authority. They are for the most part absolutely dependent upon the performance of the group as a unit. The interaction between the members of the group during the performance is the true soul and life of the music they play.
If the performance wasn't acceptable, they play it again until it is. That is the artistry of which your style of making recordings so needlessly destroys.
You talk about US being rude... You have NO idea what rude is. There was at one time a group of VERY talented and EXTREMELY successful record makers that fought the very ilk of what you represent. The "Shit Brigade" finally tired of it and have decided that it's not worth waisting their time and energy on, when they could just go back to making records and be happy. I would love to see how you would react to a Shotgun and Ded handing your lifeless meat of a brain back to you on a platter.
I for one, am not giving up the fight to shine a light on the disgusting practice of destroying music for the pure sake of destroying it for a wrote methodology of "making a record". Your "way" has cheapened the value of music. It's watered down the pool of talent it takes to make music. It's taken the joy of listening to music to new lows. All you are promoting is a rehash of the same old formula that the labels are hoping will save their asses from bankruptcy.
The labels are just loaded with moron's who wouldn't know what real talent is, much less what a real performance was all about if it slapped them in the head like a 2x4 in a tornado. The labels have let the farm leagues die for want of easy "do it again" regurgitation.
That buster, is where your "secret technique" was derived from... An easy to use formula to get a safe product out there to make as much money as possible... and all at the expense and detriment to the artists.
This is where many of us drew the line... e.g. What's more important? The music, or the money? Because of investments and what technology could do... many tried a compromise and many just went for the money. Those who saw the technology as a new tool attempted to create a new style of music. Good for them... I just don't prefer it for the reason that people like Segovia, Beck and Zappa wouldn't stand a chance at ever being heard in the mass media, unless they had been sample replaced or auto-tuned.
In many people's opinions, the fake talent and fake perfection is the height of technology. For many of us in the industry, it is the pinnacle of what is wrong with the industry.
You posed the snide little comment as to "who wronged me"... You and all like you who value the dollar over the artisty... that's who.
Don't be trite, I KNOW I don't have to sample replace anything, nor do I intend to ever do it as a matter of practice. I can, and will, do an occasional replacement... in an otherwise acceptable performance. That's the one aspect of what digital technology brings to the table that is acceptable.
I do comp things like vocals... but only as a guide track operation for an artist to learn by. Then we will go back and track the entire take. My philosophy in my shop is that it's ALL about the performance... because that IS what the music is all about.
If a group cannot play it in the studio, how can they perform it live in front of an audience? Lest any of us forget... music is ALL about the performance.
_________________ The insanity can be seen in bigger pix and greater detail at: http://www.dmmobile.com
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled." -- Sir Barnett Cocks (1907 - 1989)
Cucco Moderator
Joined: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 4216
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Okay, so let me address some of these since these seem to be the source of much of your confusion:
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
1. I never said I was a pro, I said it was the secrets of the pros! Get it straight! I am still learning everyday and will continue to.
The title of the subject and some of the text implied that you were a pro. How else would someone possess the secrets of the pros unless they were in fact a pro?
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
2. Last time I checked people don’t ask to see your degree to master a song, either your good at it or your not, kind of like playing an instrument!
No, they don't and no it's not a matter of being good at it or not. It takes years of practice, serious knowledge (obtained by studying, listening and working). Playing a musical instrument has nothing to do with being good at it or not. Everyone who is good at a musical instrument has worked hard and studied it.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
3. What gear is necessary to do mastering, most of my work is done with plug ins that model out board gear. So why do I need the gear?
Well, for starters, you need a dedicated mastering room with a high-quality monitoring environment. My mastering suite cost $17,000 to build and the room sounds phenomenal. The speakers and amps in the room are accurate as hell and I've spent hours tweaking their placement to make sure that they remain that way.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
4. My drum micing skills are the same as yours I'm sure that is if you’re doing it right. This is what I prefer, not what I have to do!
NO. They're not.
When I work on drum recordings, I spend time to make sure that the drums are in tune and that all of the mics are placed perfectly to get a cohesive kit sound. I've sound-replaced very rarely, and never due to piss-poor drumming. I've replaced drummers for this, but it's always done tactfully.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
5. Obviously you didn't read the whole post, I record double scratch guitars because 1. it does make it louder in the headphones because of headroom, and 2 because it sounds better. You have to hear the scratch tracks for a while so why not make them sound good.
If it's for sound-quality purposes, but you just delete them anyway, it's a fools-crusade. Your clients should be upset that you're wasting their time and money. Do you double track or just copy and past another one on another track?
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
7. I am here to help when I can and listen and learn, maybe you should try both as well.
See, it's this one that pisses me off. Have you bothered to look at my posts? There are a few.
I help all the time. I learn all the time.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
8. I am not trying to gain the respect of anyone, just trying to maybe help someone by sharing what I've learned. You could at least appreciate that!
Well , I did check out your website and it seems you mostly master classical music, which I love , but is very different from what I record. I found this on your page, Sublyme Records Mastering Suite is a custom built, underground facility located in historic Fredericksburg, Virginia specializing in high-quality mastering using only the finest outboard and COMPUTER BASED MASTERING GEAR FROM companies such as Manley Labs, Crane Song, Benchmark, Millennia Media and others.
Computer based , me too!
I still dont understand why you guys are so raged at my post!
I am not a pro, I am a student, how many times do you want me to say that? I think some of my work turns out sound really great, but I am not a pro by any means. What qualify's one to call them self a pro any ways, I mean when do you start saying ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me, thats foolish and also seems to be the way you are coming across.
Do me a favor, get to know me before you give me a bad name! You have no clue what your talking about when you address my personality, ethics,morals, and standards.
Number 1 first and for most, I am a devout christian, and if you know anything about the christian doctrine, you'd know that christians usually stray from being self centered. I am not saying christians are perfect, but they do have those intentions along with a lot of other really good personality trates. I am just trying to be better everyday at what I do, so I will just say this one more time.
I never meant to upset anyone or offend anyone with my post nor did I claim to be a pro! If I am so unexperianced as you say then its very clear I am a student, right!
Anyways, blessings and I hope we can get past this stupid thing because I am tired of defending my self on stupid assumptions.
Contact me personally if you want to discuss this for real!
Well , I did check out your website and it seems you mostly master classical music, which I love , but is very different from what I record.
No...I primarily record classical music. However, I do rock, jazz, country, bluegrass and others as well. I master all types of music. The difference is, I know full well that the folks on the mastering boards here and on PSW know a lot more about it and are better equipped to do mastering than I am. In other words, I know my place.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
I found this on your page, Sublyme Records Mastering Suite is a custom built, underground facility located in historic Fredericksburg, Virginia specializing in high-quality mastering using only the finest outboard and COMPUTER BASED MASTERING GEAR FROM companies such as Manley Labs, Crane Song, Benchmark, Millennia Media and others.
Computer based , me too!
Uhh...check that gear list there dude. Crane Song, Manley, Millennia, Benchmark??
Any single one of those pieces of gear costs more than your entire setup. None of them are computer based. Yes, I also use some computer-based replications of hardware - mainly those found on the UAD and TC dedicated computer cards.
However, the room, the acoustics and the monitors are THE most important ingredient in mastering, not the gear you use. If those things aren't top notch, the only thing you can do to music is hack it up.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
I still dont understand why you guys are so raged at my post!
I am not a pro, I am a student, how many times do you want me to say that? I think some of my work turns out sound really great, but I am not a pro by any means.
We get that. In fact, we've understood that since the moment you posted. That's not the issue. It's the hubris in which you posted to begin with. Even now that the subject is changed and some of the words in your first post, it comes off as authoritative.
The fact that you came here to "help" and you felt the self-importance enough to do so on your VERY first post is arrogant. Should we be thankful that for all of these nearly 10 years, no one on Recording.org or PSW has been curteous enough to explain drum recording techniques to us?
The point is - you're welcome to hang around here, read and post and even share ideas and "help." However, when your very first post comes off as authoritative, it's standoffish. Even if you were Steve Albini, most people would have just said "TOOL!"
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
What qualify's one to call them self a pro any ways
Simple - the ability and requirement to use this as the means for living. In other words - the work pays the bills. This doesn't count if you live with mom and dad. For example, my studio grossed a decent chunk of money this year. Enough that, even though I have no "day job" at the moment, I could pay a mortgage payment (of over $3000 a month) and cover health insurance for my family.
Many people here are doing far better than I am too. Folks like Bent and Remy actually have recording as their primary and only jobs. These guys are pros.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
I mean when do you start saying ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me, thats foolish and also seems to be the way you are coming across.
I don't know everything. Far from it. I don't think anyone here has represented themselves this way. I've studied physics for 12 years both at brick-and-mortar institutions and through private studies. I've studied music for 26 years again through brick-and-mortar and private studies.
However, at no point in my career did I ever say "Ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me..."
In fact, one of the first things I tell my interns and part-timers is:
"I learn something new on EVERY recording gig I do. Keep your ears and eyes open."
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
Do me a favor, get to know me before you give me a bad name! You have no clue what your talking about when you address my personality, ethics,morals, and standards.
Have I done this? Has anyone here done this? I think we've address the fact that you are trolling and/or spamming, and even said you have no clue what you're talking about, but has anyone called into question the nature of your character?
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
Number 1 first and for most, I am a devout christian, and if you know anything about the christian doctrine, you'd know that christians usually stray from being self centered. I am not saying christians are perfect, but they do have those intentions along with a lot of other really good personality trates. I am just trying to be better everyday at what I do, so I will just say this one more time.
See, it's this that pisses me off.
First, I don't know where religion comes into play in this conversation. Second, why do people feel the need to hide behind Jesus Christ instead of using him as an example to live.
When's the last time you read anything in the Bible about Jesus walking into a room full of people and immediately advising them on what to do and how to do it?
Last time I checked, it's the meek who shall inherit the Earth, not the authoritative.
Put another way, the best way to help is NOT addressing people whom you've never met and with whom you have no experience and ASSUMING that they need your help.
Most often, it's best simply to listen, listen and listen. And when you're done listening, listen some more. Then, if you see a need and desire for your special brand of help, then you may help.
I absolutely hate it when these discussions bring religion into the issue and now I'm pissed off.
joshuarecordingstudios wrote:
Anyways, blessings and I hope we can get past this stupid thing because I am tired of defending my self on stupid assumptions.
Then stop defending yourself and simply apologize and walk away. I don't mean leave the forums. I mean walk away from the topic.
If you'd like, I can lock this topic so that you don't have to keep defending yourself. Just say the word and it will be done.
I still dont understand why you guys are so raged at my post!
I am not a pro, I am a student, how many times do you want me to say that? I think some of my work turns out sound really great, but I am not a pro by any means. What qualify's one to call them self a pro any ways, I mean when do you start saying ok, I know everything and everyone must listen to me, thats foolish and also seems to be the way you are coming across.
Pot calling the kettle young man.... Let's address your statement that you are a student and that you are not a pro....
Quote:
Secrets of the newbies,
Hey guys, my name is Joshua Hamilton and I own and operate a recording studio in Middletown, Ohio called Joshua Recording Studios. You can check out some demos of my work at http://myspace.com/joshuarecordingstudios .
I am writing this article to maybe help some of you out there with questions you may have about pro recording and how the crap they get such awesome sounds and why your stuff doesn’t sound as good.
Just a little about me, I didn’t go to school for engineering, but I did learn from some of the greats which I think may count for something a little more than a piece of paper. I have been in the recording industry for the past 11 years asking my self the same questions everyone else does when they begin recording bands and such.
This will be part 1 of a 6 part tutorial on how I approach recording.
I see no where in the above paragraphs your claim of being a student and not a professional. Just the opposite... and THAT is what is getting your turn in the hot seat... and the additional roasting is because you refuse to seeming acknowledge that you've stepped right in the middle of a big pile of poo... and that you are still in the pile with it all over your shoes.
Quote:
Do me a favor, get to know me before you give me a bad name! You have no clue what your talking about when you address my personality, ethics,morals, and standards.
Do us ALL a favor and realize that it is your own ego which gives you a bad name.
YOU and you alone came into this community with ego blaring loud and clear that you and your experiences gave you authority to give advice from on-high atop your mighty pinnacle of experience.
Because of how you have conducted yourself from the outset, to this very moment, indicates to me that you are purely here for the purpose of being a Troll.
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than for you to prove me wrong and see you become an active contributing member of this community. However, I will reserve the right to refuse to hold by breath in that anticipation.
_________________ The insanity can be seen in bigger pix and greater detail at: http://www.dmmobile.com
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled." -- Sir Barnett Cocks (1907 - 1989)
Codemonkey Recording Org Pro Audio Group
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 771
Location: Scotland, UK
