Cymbal Stick Sound

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:24 pm

What I'd like to do is remove the stick sound (well, limit it) on the crash cymbal, which was being used to tap, not crash. The idea was to limit the spike in volume caused by the stick hitting the drum.
It's 2 recorderman-placed overhead tracks with a bit of bass boost.
I had an idea of using some a multiband compressor to limit the attack on the cymbal...but since it's an overhead, I don't want to kill the snare.

These tracks aren't critical but I expect to be recording some drums properly for a song and I'd like to know what to do and how.

Is this possible and what frequencies should I be looking at to get at the stick sound?

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:29 pm

going from a wooden tip to a nylon tipped stick could help reduce the stick sound.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:41 pm

Frequency selective phase cancellation maybe? Copying the tracks to other tracks, band passing all signals except cymbals, then manually cut or gate the snare out with a frequency specific triggered gate/expander like Floorfish, and then flip the phase and mix to taste? Does this sound like it may actually work or am I just spouting out terrible advice? Smile

Or you could draw EQ and compression automations maybe?

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:58 pm

Listen, it's the kind of idea I'd come up at times.

I had some idea that I could use phase cancellation to eliminate computer noise if you record the signal with a hot high end to the L of your cheapass stereo in...then you phase cancel the signalless R to remove the noise and lower the high end which decreases hissing.

It might work...I'll have a crack tomorrow night.
I tried compressing the thing, removing where it seemed the problem was but just made it sound flat.

I'm not the drummer, someone else is (obviously) and I dunno how he'd be about nylon sticks...he flatly refused brushes (thankfully he's now less convinced we're a metal band). I can't blame him for not wanting brushes though...that would be like having to push faders with a mop head.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:01 pm

You callin' me a mop head?

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:04 pm

No...

And anyway I have so much hair I need to yank it out my ears to get the cans on right.

What I meant was having to use the fabric end of a map to push the fader...nothing to do with yours, my or anyone's hair.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:27 pm

Space wrote:

going from a wooden tip to a nylon tipped stick could help reduce the stick sound.

Most drummers I know would consider this an offense punishable by death - or worse - 30 minutes of a lopsided diatribe about the technique that they possess and why the "instruments" they play are far more sophisticated than just trash cans with tuned lids and that the nuance of changing a stick by as little as 1 gram will make or break their (self-admitted) awesome performance.

I'm curious - can you post a sample of the offending noise? I can't say I've ever heard a stick hitting a cymbal that was so offensive that I wanted to remove the sound...I've heard some drum playing that was so offensive that it made me want to remove the whole kit...but that's another and often recurring story.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:43 pm

Cucco wrote:

Space wrote:

going from a wooden tip to a nylon tipped stick could help reduce the stick sound.

Most drummers I know would consider this an offense punishable by death - or worse -.

You should consider surrounding yourself with a more focused agreeable troupe with a unified vision towards a common goal.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:46 pm

More a thing about volume spikes than the sound of the stick being annoying... I was hoping to be able to selectively compress it without demolishing the attack on the snare. Just so I can actually get it into the mix fully without it distorting.
I was kinda unclear on that to begin with, sorry.

Drum Track

Edit: Oh, unfortunately I panned it on the console, and recorded the stereo mix. I can't just pick out the left track although I could properly multitrack once I record them again, and add a snare mic.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:00 pm

Oh... he'd be willing to re-take it? That shouldn't be too difficult. Experiment with moving the mics further back from the cymbals. Or raise the cymbals higher or lower depending on where the mics are. Mess around with things until you hear what you like. I also think nylon tips would make the pinging louder as opposed to softer... this is probably what you guys meant anyway. If all else fails you could just overdub that crash part if you don't have a problem with that sort of thing.

Just listened. It really does sound to me like the mics are just too close to the cymbals. If you take it again, try pulling them back more or lower the brass so it sits closer to the drums. There's a VST called Dominion, that can do some interesting real time tricks with dynamics too... like pulling attacks down to a specified level for a specified amount of time.

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:14 pm

Space wrote:

Cucco wrote:

Space wrote:

going from a wooden tip to a nylon tipped stick could help reduce the stick sound.

Most drummers I know would consider this an offense punishable by death - or worse -.

You should consider surrounding yourself with a more focused agreeable troupe with a unified vision towards a common goal.

Sorry Space, but I gotta agree 100% with Jeremy on that one.

Even the poorest of punk drummers I work with would turn their nose up at nylons (well, nylon tips that is, not the ladies undergarments).

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:42 pm

done

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:59 pm

Stick a fork in it?

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:21 am

Well not re-tracking as such, this was just 2 mics thrown up near (very near) the kit at a band rehearsal that half the singers never turned up to.
The mic was pretty close to the cymbal now that I think about it, although where the kit is and how it's laid out isn't ideal (jammed into the corner of the chancel).
I guess the point in the question was to see if anything could be done in the event of it becoming a pain, which it hasn't yet but I expect it will.

However, when recording properly, I'll get the kit moved away from the wall and be able to get a mic behind it...I had to extend the stand over the top of the right tom, near enough. Worked well enough as an experiment anyway.

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:10 am

bent wrote:

Even the poorest of punk drummers I work with would turn their nose up at nylons (well, nylon tips that is, not the ladies undergarments).

I have yet to meet a drummer that would have ever met a woman of the caliber that would even wear nylons.

The mere mention of "nylons" to a drummer automatically conotes an 'N' at the end of their Vic Firth models...

What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians?

A drummer.

What did the drummer get on his IQ test?

Drool.

How do you make a drummer's car more aerodynamic?

Take the Domino's sign off the top

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