Good/Cheap combo amp?

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:13 am

So 5 Watt amps are the best for recording?
Wow, I never really would of thought that! haha!

I've been a drummer for years. I can "play" alittle guitar, but not enough to know anything about it. I just want to get an amp so I can maybe practice alittle more, and also so I have one at my house so people can use it for recording guitar.

Question. If I would need to use one of these little guys on stage, would it work with a condenser shoved in its face going to a PA?

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:14 am

Sethiroth wrote:

So 5 Watt amps are the best for recording?
Wow, I never really would of thought that! haha!

The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:09 pm

I am a firm believer in low-wattage amps for recording. The reason being, you want the speakers as well as the power section to be able to develop their particular types of distortion and overtones to get that sound that we all seek in a guitar amp.

In an intimate studio setting where volume is not all that necessary, since you arent trying to cover the area of a 2000 seat hall, low wattage with all the tonal characteristics of an amp turned up is a no-brainer.

Having a cabinet to match the amps efficiency is an important step in this process. This is where your lower rated speakers (wattage wise) make a huge difference. Also as I said the efficiency is important.

Theres a couple of schools of thought towards this end.

One would be using a speaker that would allow the maximum excursion of the cone and its related distortions at a low output to get that 'speaker sound' with the head being up enough to bring the power section into that warm overtone state........

Or allowing the head to do its magic and putting an efficient but sturdy speaker which allows the pure head overtones to be reproduced clearly without the speaker loading (so-to-speak)

Either way, its much easier to get these conditions in smaller rooms without the advent of a 100 watt amp being turned up past the ability of the room and equipment to handle its level, with a smaller great sounding amp.

As for the tube life with a head as opposed to a combo, if you are playing a lot, the combo will wear out the tubes a bit quicker...EL,6L6, etc....

For recording purposes.....I put the head in the control room anyway connected to the cabinet out in the main room with a long speaker cord (not TOO long!!) so the vibrations arent an issue. IF the amp and the head stay in the main room and the player either stays with the amp or patches from the console, I NEVER put the head on the cabinet for the reasons which have already been touched on.

You've got enough to worry about getting the sound right without trying to identify a little harmonic vibration being fed into the mic because of things being stacked on things being played really loud.

Don ya tink......Lucy

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:44 pm

I'm with Dave
but
sometimes, only sometimes, I do put the amp on the speaker
and sometimes I'll sit the guitarist right near the speaker to get some interaction and feed back

Dave said
" You've got enough to worry about getting the sound right without trying to .... "
KISS
keep it simple s....

and
as Halifaxsoundguy said
" It's all taste. "
no matter how you got it ... if you think you have the right sound ... print it

as for the live PA Question.
" If I would need to use one of these little guys on stage, would it work with a condenser shoved in its face going to a PA? "
yes, if the PA has a good foldback and side fill then a small amp or POD only can work
but
I'd probably use an SM57 and not a condenser

small amps in road cases with condensers is a whole-nuther thread

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:07 pm

hey guys,

first post, new to recording but, have been building guitar tube amps for the past 8 years and playing since 1965.

I assume this here "under 300$ amp" is for recording...

get the Tweed Champ from Ceriatone.com new or...get a second hand Fender Pro Junior or Peavey Classic 20.

All the best!

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:26 pm

Nothing like the sound of the power amp tubes working in a small amp! I prefer low watts my self.

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:58 am

Halifaxsoundguy wrote:

The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

Word! I mean, I know this is a recording forum and all but it seems bassackward to suggest amps based on how easy they are to record without taking the actual sound of the amp into consideration.

A Champ with it's small speaker and a single 6V6 isn't going to sound like a cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 and a quad of EL34s regardless of the fact it's easier to control vibrations and mic up in a studio situation.

That's not to say a small amp can't sound huge in a studio environment or anything...but it doesn't have the same tone or distortion characteristics of a higher wattage amp with different power tubes.

This is coming from a source that knows more about amps and guitar tone than recording though...so take my opinion (obviously biased) for what it's worth... Wink

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:35 am

RECmole wrote:

Halifaxsoundguy wrote:

The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

Word! I mean, I know this is a recording forum and all but it seems bassackward to suggest amps based on how easy they are to record without taking the actual sound of the amp into consideration.

A Champ with it's small speaker and a single 6V6 isn't going to sound like a cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 and a quad of EL34s regardless of the fact it's easier to control vibrations and mic up in a studio situation.

That's not to say a small amp can't sound huge in a studio environment or anything...but it doesn't have the same tone or distortion characteristics of a higher wattage amp with different power tubes.

This is coming from a source that knows more about amps and guitar tone than recording though...so take my opinion (obviously biased) for what it's worth... Wink

Okay. I want to point out that in an on-stage situation (or rehearsal studio/barn/basement) there are factors in play that arent going to get you a good recording no matter how many stages of preamp, how many winds on the output transformer, how many speakers in play....etc etc...

If you want to OR NEED to play really loud to 'get that sound' and feel that this best for your recordings, then you better be prepared to shell out for a room that can handle the high spl's without introducing a bunch of nodes that will translate into the mics being used and print a horrid sound that even the best protooler cant fix.

What you hear in a high volume, dense, sound setting, is simply not what a mic hears. The brain will function as a filter in every situation like that and will tune out a lot of the really bad stuff thats being thrown around the room. A mic and a recording chain simply wont logic away all the bad stuff.

Theres an old old phrase in recording thats still true.........."mics dont lie."

Yes, you can get a great sound with high gain , multiple speaker cabinets, lots of pedals etc, but it will take a lot more tweeking to achieve this than to use a low-wattage high gain amp that will most likely sound great in many different rooms as opposed to the alternative which needs a very specialized room to truly work properly.

I think this is the point of the thread.

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:43 am

I couldn't agree more, trying to get a quad box to translate after recording into something that's not muddy and ruined is damn near impossible for me. However taking an overdriven practice amp to the edge makes for some awesome playback.

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:36 am

Mmmmm...then I vote for a silverfaced Fender Vibro Champ Wink

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:18 pm

RECmole wrote:

Mmmmm...then I vote for a silverfaced Fender Vibro Champ Wink

In doing so you would be recording with one of the 'secret' killer amps for studio ever built.

The Tweed version being slightly more desired but only because it breaks up a bit 'browner'. Evidence a lot of tracks with the Reverend Willie G on the famous Pearly Gates through tweed Champs, VibroChamps and such.

If thats not guitar noise I QUIT!

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:07 am

I have two SF Vibro Champs, and they are, indeed, good little recording beasts. (One is actually a Bronco...but..same thing).

I retubed and recapped them, and stuck some Weber C8RS speakers in them, and they sound great cranked.

Good luck finding them as cheap as I did, but if you can find them relatively inexpensive...good amps.

Fender Blues Jr.s are also great little amps. I have two of those that I picked up used for about $200 each.

I had some old C12Q Jensens lying around that I stuck in them. Retubed them with better tubes. They are JUST loud enough to use in a lower-volume small bar blues gig. And, I actually use one at practice with a bass, two guitars, full drums and PA as monitors. Plenty loud enough, especially if the front end is goosed a bit. I use a Tube Screamer for a bit of boost/overdrive.

I save wear and tear on my Deluxe Reverb RI by using the Blues Jr. for practice, and the DR for gigs. The guys were amazed at how loud that little amp was.

Overall, a good, used Blues Jr. wouldn't be a bad buy. Better tubes, a better-sounding speaker...nice amp.

Kapt.Krunch

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