confusion over acoustic treatment design

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:59 am

Reading and re-reading the thread, several points come to mind.

A wrong room at the right price is still a wrong room.

The question is not if you can afford to do it right, but if you can afford to it wrong.

From what has been written, you are about to waste money on one acoustic factor.

Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction.

Stop any construction you are doing, buy Rod's book, absorb it, and keep asking questions here.

Andre

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:17 pm

I have the Master Handbook Of Acoustics already and have read it from front to back. What is Build It Like A Pro going to tell me besides what I already know?

I read something the other day that said design is the art of compromise. Maybe thickening the wall is a good idea but not for the entire room. The frontwall would benefit the most from this. I have already considered having a custom made fiberglass installation that would act as a basstrap/deadzone creator. It might pan out but if it costs more than I'm willing to spend I will look of other things. The most important factors in the design right now are reverb time, stereo image, and equal response. Next would be sound isolation.

I'm not doing this half-assed but I don't want to have to put up new walls. If I added enough wall to make a difference it would really decrease the room size. Plus, I might have a solution for the otherside of the front wall to isolate the sound, maybe brick, or stacking some heavy stuff up.

The soft ceiling idea is a good one, but how much coverage do you suggest? I don't want it to deaden the room like carpet does. So where should I place the tiles?

The concrete floor will be cleaned and stained, or painted. Whichever looks nicer. Some rugs will be added for sure.

This room isn't dedicated to just mixing, it's also a place to hang out and it should have almost a green room type of feel.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:37 pm

camsr wrote:

What is Build It Like A Pro going to tell me besides what I already know?

Read it and find out... My guess is there is a lot you don't know.

I got a Green thing going on.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:31 pm

I don't know what you don't know so I can't answer the question. In particular, I've never read The Master Handbook you read, so I don't know how it compares. I'm sure there is a lot of overlap of basic information about absorption coefficients and room modes, etc. that all basic books will have. I have read a lot of more academic books from the Tech library, and I found Rods to give more practical advice on building in a home application.

With that said, Rod's book is not a magic bullet. You are making specific choices based on site, budget, and design goals that it will not address directly. It might help, but it might not. I don't think it will hurt. Nothing I've read in it seems misleading or wrongheaded.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:52 pm

I will try to help.

I'm in the middle of something like you are going into. I'm about to start preparing a wrong room for mixing/tracking because I don't have another choice and I had to shut my studio for a while.

The first thing you should do is try not to take decissions before you come and post here. Otherwise you will deny everithing it is said unless it is what you are thinking.

What I recommend is that you set your priorities first and post them. Then Try to act in consecuence. For example

1- The room must be a place to hang out. So it must be comfortable.

2- I will mix music and do some minor tracking there

3- I won't be in the house for too long so whatever I build should be unmountable.

4- I must spend X quantity of money.

This is just an idea. If you post something like that then people will stop suggesting steps that are not for your project and it will be easier to give some ideas for it.

In my opinion, you mus make the room comfortable. Use materials that usually sound good. In my case I like heavy curtins on windows, wood and fiberglass covered with nice colored fabric. Put some nice light and air seal every door/window.

Is it very noiy outside? Is it a problem? You still haven't talk about your neighbours. Were are they?

Please post a plan. It would be easier that way.

eFe

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:34 pm

Not very much outside noise to be concerned with for mixing. If I were recording here it would be a bit noisy.

The plan so far is to place my desk near the frontwall with the monitors on the desk. Then some Perforated Panel resonators for subbass and bass treatment, placed at major mode locations which I have yet to find. I will try to make the frontwall live and dead in places, dead to have an accurate image and live to contribute to the rooms sound. Then I will add diffusers to the backwall and some absorption along the ceiling and sidewalls. I do this to give a 30ms initial time delay to the echo from the backwall.

I could tear out the drywall and put some R-19 insulation in. If I do tear down some wall I might as well splay them. You've convinced me not to be lazy!

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:07 pm

This thread is really living up to the title Smile

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:40 pm

camsr wrote:

I have the Master Handbook Of Acoustics already and have read it from front to back. What is Build It Like A Pro going to tell me besides what I already know?

Cam,

I wrote the book - and I don't really care whether you buy it or not - either way doesn't make a bit of difference in substance to my wallet.

But - if you read the book Alton wrote cover to cover and understand even a large part of it - you're aslready an acoustician - so I don't understand why you're here adsking these questions.

All you have to do is aplpy all of the math in that great book (which I happen to own a copy of as well) and you'll be in fine shape.

My book is not in competition with that book - and was written to be a companion book to it - breaking down a lot of the concepts into laymen's terms - making it easier to implement for people who do not have the math skills.

Apparently you don't need this - but are not applying what you found in Alton's book - and I find myself confused by that - perhaps you can explain..........

Sincerely,

Rod

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:05 pm

It's a confusion about where to put all those great little pieces of acoustics to get near the sound of a proper control room. The room doesn't offer a lot of options on the control desk placement. So my biggest question is how do I want to design the reverb for mixing mostly bass heavy recordings? I suppose I want less bass from the room and more treble right?

I was listening to some recordings I know well today and the bass inconsistencies walking throughout the room just irritate me. How can I fix those bass deadzones? Is that what splaying can do?

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:35 pm

This is getting fun.

camsr wrote:

It's a confusion about where to put all those great little pieces of acoustics to get near the sound of a proper control room.

It's detailed in MHoA (Master Handbook of Acoustics)

Quote:

So my biggest question is how do I want to design the reverb for mixing mostly bass heavy recordings? I suppose I want less bass from the room and more treble right?

It's detailed in MHoA.

Quote:

I was listening to some recordings I know well today and the bass inconsistencies walking throughout the room just irritate me.

Then don't walk around the room. Seriously. You know that you have a sub-optimum condition with the room layout to begin with. You know that you have asymmetrical low-frequency absorption. Control rooms are designed with a critical listening area.

Quote:

How can I fix those bass deadzones?

It's detailed in MHoA.

Quote:

Is that what splaying can do?

It's detailed in MHoA, but you know that already. Very Happy

You want help, we will help you, but you have to do your own homework, especially when you claim to have already done so.

Andre

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:39 am

So a dead front end is what I want.

To treat the bass, how do I tune the basstraps? I want them tuned to the frequency where the sound phase cancels at the listening spot?

Sorry for being full of questions.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:03 am

camsr wrote:

To treat the bass, how do I tune the basstraps? I want them tuned to the frequency where the sound phase cancels at the listening spot?

camsr,

refer to chapter 9 of the Master Handbook of Acoustics - the section dealing wihth Diaphragmatic Absorbers......... there's a great chart there that lays it all out........Figure 9-21 (and be sure to check out Fig. 9-34).

Rod

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:05 am

Lol, not only do you bend over backwards to help people with your own book, Rod, you're a glossary for others...

You deserve a plaque or something.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:28 am

Maybe this is a bit premature to announce, but I'm planning on a plaque here in my studio dedicating it to Rod, without who's help, my studio wouldn't exist.

Does that count? Very Happy

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:31 am

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