Need Bass Help

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 7:12 pm

1) I am no bass player
2) I have a 4-String Dean Razor with Flatwounds
3) I played this out of an old rundown 50W yamaha solidstate.
4) I mic-ed it with a cheap Nady kick mic.
5) I want it to sound like a cross between Flea and Aston Family Man
6) I understand I need better gear on top of more playing and mixing talent.
7) I throw myself at your mercy.

Other amping options: DI, a Mesa Walkabout into 15 cab
Other micing options: sm58, AT2035

*Something just isn't cutting it. It sounds muddy with no presence. I want something kinda gritty, kinda crisp, definitely earth shaking. A deep full low end with transparent bite on top.

Here are the following examples (if you get bored, start at around the 3 minute mark):

Bass Raw
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7767292

Bass Processed
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7767326

Bass in whole mix
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7767332

Big Question: What can I do to help my tone?

PS.... any other general mixing comments? (I know the drums sound weak.... I am working on that.)

Thanks!

Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:23 pm

I listened to the raw track. It sounds like you're driving something way too hard, that's a seriously fuzzy, muddy mess, and with that as the raw track, I doubt you're ever going to get anything useful from it. Unless mud is the goal (I have no idea what a combination of Flea and Aston Family man would sound like!). I would rerecord, and I would definitely take a DI AND a mic at the same time - the Mesa has a built in DI, so use it plus try the SM58 with the screen removed, basically making it a 57. Spend some serious time moving the mic around the speaker to find the sweet spot - nearer the center, towards the edge, closer, further away, whatever it takes. The DI signal is often cleaner and with more treble, and you can then blend it in with the mic'd signal to help get some clarity and top end without sacrificing the low end from the mic on the cab. Basically, you should try to get the amp/cab combo to sound as close to the sound you're going for as possible before you record anything. Once you've got that, you're positioning the mic to capture that goodness as closely as possible, and you should be able to do that with a 58/57 with some experimentation. Definitely ditch the Nady mic. I would try the Mesa into the 15 as well, but the built in 12 in the Mesa might be just the thing you need. Try them both.

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:24 am

I listened to the raw and processed tracks. As apstrong says, the raw track sounds overdriven, but the processed track sounds worse - even muddier. Until you get some basic ideas on eqing and compressing a bass signal, I would stick to a DI. You just have too many variables right now - all of them questionable. What do you have available as a DI? With any reasonable DI and internal eq and compression you can get a much better sound than the raw sound you have recorded. It may not be what you are ultimately looking for, but it would be a solid basis from which to start.

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:10 am

This is my first try micing bass, so I guess mission fail! It's all good though... that's how we learn right?

Side-note: I only have the Mesa head, not speaker... as shown here:

http://www.alpha-music.com/productcart/pc/catalog/6WALKABOUTXL.jpg

thanks guys... I will retrack the bass sometime this week.

Any other thoughts about the tune or the rest of the mix?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:44 pm

In my nearly 40 years of recording rock-and-roll stuff, pop, contemporary, I've almost always take in the bass guitar with a DI be it passive 50,000 ohm transformer or 2 meg ohm active. Sometimes the direct out of the amplifier head depending upon manufacturer.

But hey, one of the reasons you are having problems with putting a microphone on the bass guitar is that you are using cardioid directional microphone. They exhibit "proximity effect" (buildup of low frequencies versus distance) which is counterproductive on the bass guitar. What you want to use is in any omnidirectional microphone, such as an Electro-Voice 635. Don't use a condenser microphone. No. Don't. The 635 sound wonderful on a bass amplifier. So wonderful that you'll find you probably don't need to use any EQ nor dynamics processing. Just tweak your gain levels properly. I just drape mine over the cabinet. I don't even use a stand much less position the capsule towards the center of the Speaker cone. That's all you need. Sounds killer. Sits right in the mix where you want it. No stupid processing necessary.

Let me know how that sounds.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Moderator Joined: Nov 16, 2004 Posts: 864

If you want to approximate Flea's sound, you would want roundwound strings on the bass. Specifically, he has used nickel-wound GHS Boomers in the past.

This will brighten up the sound considerable, as will dealing with the buildup of unnecessary lows you are getting from your mic choice and technique that was addressed above.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:16 am

I know that he used rounds, I just suppose I hear in my hear in my head a Fleaish bass line but with a family man tone.

Either way, I have to re-track. Yay!

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:27 pm

i know flea uses (or used to use) Electro Harmonix Bass Balls distortion before his amp. i know this because i have one and remember buying it trying to get his sound. i do not know about your dean bass but i think he uses stingrays in this studio, or some "flea bass" which could have been a modified stingray.

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:38 pm

I would take Remy's advice on recording your bass with a DI, at least give it a shot. If you got a great bass, a DI, and a mic pre you're pretty much set. Before I was also using a DI but my bass was a cheapo SGR and I didn't like the sounds, but recently I bought a Fender Jazz bass with some great upgrades like better electronics and a bad ass bridge II, plugged it in a REDDI then to my A12 mic pre, and boom I had my bass sound

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:56 pm

When I re-track, I will definitely add the DI... there is really no reason not to, and I can see that now.

What kind of wire do I need to connect that to my mixer?

Female XLR to 1/4? Do I have to worry about balanced and unbalanced or ohms or anything?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:33 pm

Lots of good comments so far...here are a few of my thoughts.
As has already been stated - the raw track is way too distorted and pushed. There's just a bad sound to start. The processed track...geez...what did you do to it to make it sound WORSE?!?! :-O
The mix on the whole -
Filter out the low end rumble in the intro.
There's a little too much kick - it dominates the mix.

The bass is lost, but with the excessive kick, it's almost made back up.

Try DI'ing the bass. Until you've got your mic'ing skills and equipment up to par, this is the best option. Even when they are, this is still usually the best option. There are so many good DIs out there for bass - Radial, Manley, Reddi, etc...

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:51 pm

i just got a new 18 cab, so i will rerecord with that and the di

how does the organ and uke sound?

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