What file format do you work with?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:39 pm

Just curious -
I'm relatively new to the world of high-resolution digital video...
The video cameras I have acquired do AVCHD at resolutions up to 1920*1080 at either 24P or 30P.
Needless to say, the files are very large and do not preview well at these resolutions - even on a quad core machine.
I've decided that for most projects, I'll likely work at a much lower resolution, but I'm struggling with which formats to work in for the few projects I've done so far.

If I bounce a full 1080P project to uncompressed AVI, 10 minutes of video makes for a file over 60GB in size!!!

What do you guys do?
Just curious?

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:06 pm

struggle just like you

here in a PAL world 25 frame
and for a TV broadcast perhaps 1080i

transmission here is in Mpeg2

some times these things can be driven by you choice of camera and stay native to that

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:21 am

JVC has a new camera we are looking at does NATIVE FCP.

Here is the info http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/CAMERA/clips/itspossible.html

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:06 am

Which Camera????
You shouldn't be making uncompressed file.

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:15 am

Jeremy, you are trying to deliver uncompressed video, why? AVCHD is already highly compressed based upon MPEG 4. The analogy is, recording in MP3 at 16-bit 44.1kHz, then up converting to 192kHz, 24-bit .wav uncompressed. No actual advantage to that. If you are working in Sony Vegas, you can work in m2T, which is an MPEG 2 transport stream and then render out that way. I mean even blue ray is MPEG 2. And I ain't deliverin' anything except 16 x 9 standard definition DVD. Why? Because, it's practical. In fact, after viewing a standard definition Canon GL-1 documentary production, edited in Sony Vegas, rendered to standard definition DV tape, then transferred to Betacam SP analog into a Christie 4k video projector and displayed on a 30 x 50 foot screen, I was quite happy with the look. There is what we call overkill that accomplishes nothing. I mean even the audio ends up being Dolby AC 3 which is highly compressed audio. And how are you supposed to work around that? You can't.

Are you prepared to deliver all your productions on 1TB hard drives? Of course not. In fact, if you are shooting with a standard definition camera in anamorphic 16 x 9, the perceived resolution is nearly equivalent to that of 900 lines. Nobody can really see the difference between perceived 900 line resolution & 1080. And that's how I deliver standard resolution DVDs. Looks great. Less filling. Looks great. Less filling. And because I'm still shooting in 30 interlace, Sony Vegas allows one to convert to 24P and then back to 30 interlace. I tweak gamma & saturation & may add some artificial film grain. I only know one fool with a Blue-Ray player & a standard definition TV and that's my little brother. These new formats are already dead formats. Sort of like wanting to purchase a gas guzzling, V-8 muscle car today. Your new camera is sort of like recording with Neve preamps. So even in standard resolution, you are looking better than an older generation camera. We can't escape compression and our current high-definition broadcast TV standard is still 1080 interlaced not progressive. So our new standard is already obsolete. What's a fella to do? Where does it end? You came from the signal Corps. I came from a land of commercial broadcast. You have to be practical. I shoot in high-definition when I can but my workflow is standard definition. Everybody seems happy with their DVDs even when displayed on 52 inch high-definition monitors. You keep everybody happy by telling them you're shooting in high-definition. No lie. Just deliver in standard definition but widescreen. I mean it was cool watching a NASA launch in high-definition. You can see all of the alligators swimming for their lives. Big deal. I was watching the launch not the alligators per se. In standard definition I may not have been able to see the alligators. That's OK. Alligators are impractical.

I got food poisoning once eating alligator. So I don't eat alligator anymore.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:32 am

Sorry -
I should explain - the reason I tried exporting to an uncompressed format is because it's the compression that's choking up the machine. It can't handle a full-resolution preview in AVCHD. So, my logic is, instead of translating from one form of compression to another and then bouncing/rendering, my thought was to go uncompressed then render compressed. I'm certainly seeing the error of my ways given the file sizes!

In any case, I've noticed some pretty weird anomolies when I convert from MPEG4 (AVCHD) to MPEG2. The MPEG 2 version has a glitch roughly 1x per second where the frame seems to jump giving a very blocky look to everything then returning to normal. It's most often visible in the non-moving portions (a function of the predictive compression of the MPEG codec) - it just seems odd that it's doing it at such a regular interval.

Any thoughts?

BTW -
I'm definitely aware that for the vast majority of projects, 1080/24P is WAY overkill. However, I do have the desire to get into doing some Blu-Ray authoring. I'll be acquiring the DTS-HD CODEC in the fall.

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:59 am

I got food poisoning once eating alligator. So I don't eat alligator anymore.
Ms. Remy Ann David

You should have ordered real Florida GATOR meat!!! Tastes just like chicken...So get some chicken!

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:40 am

Yes, but what camera did you shoot it on?
Very few cameras are 24P... it's really 29.9 or 23.9

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:40 pm

Moonbaby, It was real gator meat. I got it at a nice restaurant in Miami. It was a little tougher than chicken but tasted like chicken. It must have been a sick chicken that the gator ate? I met Colonel Sanders when I was a kid and I used to always eat my spinach like Popeye. I'll stick with the Kentucky & spinach chicken. I don't want it grilled. I like fried, deep-fried, like my recording sessions.

I don't have any cholesterol problems
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:56 pm

life was easier back at MiniDV

the compression formats play havoc with our editors and authoring. The Mpeg s 2 and 4 are not edit freindly BUT the editors are handling them better.

" ... DTS-HD CODEC in the fall. "

codecs in general are things we have had to rely on since video first entered the computer back with things like AVID composer etc

be aware that you may be the only codec user so you will have to render media in a form that your client and other editors (audio included) can import

we luv video sized files
they always push our systems to the edge

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:21 am

What editing program are you using? If you are using FCP, I would highly suggest using the Apple ProResHQ codec, as it is small, but is also very high quality. I just finished editing a music video shot on a Red cam at full res, and i was able to edit it all on my macbook pro. Good luck!

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:40 pm

Wow...I accidentally let this one slip.

The cameras are Canon Vixia series (HF20). Supposedly, they do a real 24P, but I'm peeling back some of the layers on that.

I'm using Vegas Pro 9.

Strangely, my machine is handling the live editing a lot better now...no idea how or why, it just is.

Honestly, I'm pretty impressed with the capabilities of both the cameras and the software. The only thing that sucks is 8 hours of rendering time for a single concert event! Nothing sucks worse then rendering only to find out the next day that you forgot to do a fade out correctly...grrrrr....

When you're delivering files (not DVDs) to a client, what do you shoot for to get the ultimate in compatibility? MPEG 2? (MPG) Quicktime (.MOV)?

I've got a client who's having a hard time viewing MPEG 2...doesn't make sense...

Cheers-
J

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:46 pm

Feel free to check out a few short clips of the work at:
http://www.sublymerecords.com/Glenn
http://www.sublymerecords.com/Sony

The orchestra is the Fairfax Symphony.

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