Overhead Phase

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:30 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MemoGtr:
so as long as both mic have the same distance from kick/snare is ok, right?

right... i believe Recorderman recommended two sticks because two sticks are available and easy to use. of course, increasing the distance will pick up a bit more of room.

but yea, make the distance from the snare impact point to both mics the same and make the kick beater point to both mics the same.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:42 pm

ok...one more thing, is there something you recommend to get more toms a little less cymbals? im afraid that the toms wont be "heard"

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 3:03 pm

Sonixx..I just listened to your sample and I'd like to say thanks for posting them w/ pictures..that was very nice of you..

I personally thought the spaced and modified spaced pair sounded out of phase, the coincident pair sounded in phase. It's strange that the spaced pair sounds out of phase because I use this technique and don't usually have that problem...
Again thanks for posting the comparisons...I really enjoy things like that.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:42 pm

Hey Randy, how about elaborating more on your out of phase comment. Are you referring to collapsing to Mono?

I think I need to raise the back mic some because I have noticed that on some cymbals my son's movements (probably arms) interfere with the back mic... but surely not with the spaced mics.

Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:57 pm

No collapsing to mono..just listening to the stereo speakers on my computer. It seemed slightly out of phase....about 150 degrees or so.

No 50 degrees isn't accurate..my hearing isn't that good..just a guess. Out of phase stuff nag's at my ears...I can't explain it..but I do know it when I hear it. I'll take a listen again tomorrow and maybe switch to mono to see what happens..

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:35 am

I don't think I'm interpreting your Out-of-Phase term correctly. Do you mean shift of image...

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:20 am

I worked out the RecorderMan geometry, and it translates easily into a simple jig.

Make a tee from 1/2" pvc pipe. As an example, make the leg 5' long and the tee 4' wide.

Place the leg at the kick beater. Imagine a mic at either end of the tee. No matter how you twist or rotate the tee, both mics are equidistant from the kick point.

Next, attach one end of a string to each end of the tee. This gives you a loop that hangs from the tee ends.

The center of the string loop is where the snare impact point is located.

This admittedly awkward jig will drive home the concept of the RecorderMan technique. Once you see it done physically, it will make perfect sense to you.

The distance between snare and kick is different, depending on the length of the string. However, both snare and kick are always equidistant from both overheads, and centered in the image field.

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:58 am

bgavin,

"The center of the string loop is where the snare impact point is located."

You lost me there.

So, you pick an arbitrary length of string that is longer than the tee, and tie each end of the string to each end of the tee? Then the sting is pulled taught at its' centerpoint to form a triangle with the tee? Is that where the mic goes? I thought the mics went at each end of the tee?

Please back up, slow down, and add some detail to your instuctions in terms of where to put the mics and exactly what to do with that string.

Dean

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:04 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bgavin:
I worked out the RecorderMan geometry, and it translates easily into a simple jig
.
.
.
However, both snare and kick are always equidistant from both overheads, and centered in the image field.

Am i missing something here... why not just take a tape measure and measure the distances. It take about a minute once you've done it once...

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:56 am

Great thread!
I spent a good 4 hrs yesterday getting drum sounds for a long-term project. After going through the usual rigamarole of moving mics, fine tuning phase issues, getting a good room sound etc. (I always start with the overheads) I finally got just about the best kit sound I've ever gotten. Really, it flat out rocks.

At the end of the session yesterday I find this thread poking through the forums, and go check out our drum mics, which are still set up. Yup. EXACTLY where Recorderman said to put em! Coulda saved myself half a day I guess, but it was more fun taking the long route anyway.

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:30 pm

FWIW... I've posted a clip of my kit using the Recorderman Mic'ing technique.

Click here for Full Kit Clip

Look for the Full Kit Title.

There's three clips in the MP3:

1) Overheads Dry

2) Overhreads with some EQ and Compression (Vintage Warmer)

3) #2 plus the close mics (Kick, Tom bottoms and Snare bottom)

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 12:25 am

Sonixx,

Is that an smaller, untensioned drumhead on the kick's batter side? What am I seeing there?

Dean

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:41 am

Quote:

Originally posted by deanp920:
Sonixx,

Is that an smaller, untensioned drumhead on the kick's batter side? What am I seeing there?

Dean

hey deanp920,

Yep... it's a G1 Clear (rim and all) taped on.

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:45 pm

Cool, Sonixx!

Is the G1 taped on such that an air gap exists between it and the kick batter, or is it the other way around(no gap)?

Can you elaborate a bit on where you acquired this technique. Theory?

Your clips sound good.

Dean

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:48 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by deanp920:
Cool, Sonixx!

Is the G1 taped on such that an air gap exists between it and the kick batter, or is it the other way around(no gap)?

The G1 is kind of loose. I used really thick and strong Duct tape. I'm not sure what you mean by air gap... basically the G1 is just taped to the Kick head.

Quote:

Can you elaborate a bit on where you acquired this technique. Theory?

Your clips sound good.

Dean

Thanks... I probably found this technique by reading the forums. I'm not sure when I read it. Not sure of the theory... I just know it works for what I want. I have tried several head types, clear and coated, with and without the ring. I found a fully intact clear 14 inch G1 was the ticket. Also, I have no other muffling of any kind in the kick... nor in any other drum for that matter. I have probably tried every form of kick muffling and this method is to my liking the best. The kick head is part of an Evans EQ3 system... but without the system.

Thanks...

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