Musicians on strike v.s. synths !

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:16 pm

A number of NYC musicians are going on strike to protest the use of synthesizers that they claim, replace many live orchestra musicians; Here is the link to the news article:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=638&ncid=762&e=1&u=/nm/20030307/en_nm/leisure_broadway_dc

I quote : "Musicians, who currently make a base salary of $1,350 per week, said the producers' demand is about saving money and would put musicians out of work. "

HEY $1,350 a week !!! If I knew of a gig where I can make THAT kind of $$$ playing an instrument, I would have quit my programing job years ago !! That is a lot of money for business owners to pay out when the Union forces them to have a Minimum of 11 players... Do you all think the synth/sampler realm is a real threat ?? Regards, -Steve

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:19 pm

Computer music on Broadway? LOL, how about holographic performers too!
Beam me up Scotty Rolling Eyes

Hopefully there will be a reasonable agreement between parties involved.

Quote:

HEY $1,350 a week !!! If I knew of a gig where I can make THAT kind of $$$ playing an instrument, I would have quit my programing job years ago !!

Don't forget, we're talking about NYC, where the cost of living is considerably higher. That kind of salary barely makes for a comfortable existence in the 'Burbs, especially when supporting an average sized family. Ya gotta put in OVERTIME hours on top of that salary to survive.

These are dedicated professional musicians who have made it to BROADWAY. Probably spent Grammar School, Intermediate and High School in honors bands and orchestras. Went on to major in music at College and so on. They deserve thier due credit( and monetary compensation) for making Broadway great.
:p:

This kind of thing always happens every once in a while. Kinda like a cleansing. Trims the fat. Don't worry, there will always be great live music on Broadway.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:02 pm

[quote]Originally posted by Tommy P.:
[b] That kind of salary barely makes for a comfortable existence in the 'Burbs, especially when supporting an average sized family. Ya gotta put in OVERTIME hours on top of that salary to survive.

These are dedicated professional musicians who have made it to BROADWAY. Probably spent Grammar School, Intermediate and High School in honors bands and orchestras. Went on to major in music at College and so on. They deserve thier due credit( and monetary compensation) for making Broadway great.
Rolling Eyes

)

"They deserve their due credit (and monetary compensation)". Well, sure. Who doesn't.

And while unions in general make my heave my lunch, this especially is a bunch of b.s. Having to hire a minimum number of musicians is extortion and socialistic. This is a free market society, and no way in hell am I going to let some union tell me I have to pay 26 musicians if I only need 10. That is crap. Period. Socialized music forced upon the producers by a union who thinks they can control a market is garbage.
And if a musician has spent his life to master the violin, kudos to him. But that doesn't ENTITLE him to anything except an applause. And even that is up to me/the audience. Just because you dedicate your life to being a musician doesn't mean that you get what you think you 'deserve'.

I know it sucks. And the music will surely suffer. But let the market decide that. If the music suffers, then attendace should drop. The Audience will have the last say. But if it is not different and technology replaces people, then (I know this is harsh, but) TOO BAD. It sucks. It sucked when a robot replaced my uncle on 'the line' at Ford. But thats how it goes.

(FYI: I can argue this the other way too, I'm just going with this one first)!
JZ :p:

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:09 pm

Keyboard players always think this is cool. That is because it doesn't
endanger them like it does other musicians. They get off on the idea
they can do it all themselves. On the other hand, most other
musicians and drummers have had a problem with this for decades.
Not just on Broadway but in studios and on club gigs. This same issue
was raised by studio players when overdubbing was becoming a
common practice in the 50’s and 60’s. Famed Nashville producer Billy
Sherrill used to sneak into the studio late at night to do overdubs to
avoid the union reps.

I can remember when almost all night clubs had a 3 or 4 piece band.
Not so now. Nowadays it’s usually a Krapie-Okie set up or a keyboard
player and a girl singer if anything. I used to hit all the bars in town to
check out the competition but now I don’t. I am not interested
anymore. And other players aren’t either. It would seem the club
owners have cut off their noses to spite their faces. The phenomenon
has killed the music scene.

The advent of synths really does impact the musical community in terms
of available work. This is a twofold question. First doesn't the audience
deserve the impact of a full orchestra rather than a midi performance?
They certainly pay enough in admission prices. Second it's a labor issue.
Unimaginative business managers will always look to labor costs to try to
maximize profit. IMO this is very short sighted as if no one works no one
can afford your product, be it a Broadway show or a car. Henry Ford
understood this.. he paid workers $5 a day so they could afford to buy
his autos. And he sold millions and went on to become the biggest auto
company in the world (for a while). Why should the producers keep all of
the money. Isn’t it equitable to spread a little of it around to the musicians?
In the end if the Producers get their way, the overall quality of a show going
experience will be diminished, causing a downward spiral of attendance,
ability to collect receipts etc.. It could be the signal of the demise of the
Broadway Show as we know it. That would be a pity. Kurt
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:46 pm

Jeff, you need to go see Sally Fields in the movie 'Norma Rae'. Or go to Hershey Park in PA.

Quote:

Having to hire a minimum number of musicians is extortion and socialistic. This is a free market society, and no way in hell am I going to let some union tell me I have to pay 26 musicians if I only need 10. That is crap. Period. Socialized music forced upon the producers by a union who thinks they can control a market is garbage.

OK I'll spend some time with you on this Jeff, but just a little.
You need to have a workforce base that will grow roots(in other words, you want them to make thier home near your business, have families and be available when you need them). That workforce needs to be employed most of the time for this healthy senario to take place.
People take vacations, have babies, may get a cold, or other personal reasons for not being able to make it to work.
So you have extra backup musicians and performers who are rehearsed with the show and can fill in.
There are huge profits associated with hit Broadway shows, but as you know, NYC and the rest of the USA have been hurt lately, so there just needs to be some belt tightening, not a sweeping anti-union or anti-anything type thing goin on. Ya dig? Or you don't dig. Doesn't matter to me, you're entitled to your opinion.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:56 pm

Not an opinion, just an observance.

I remember when they were building the opry house after they closed the ryman. As proof, the main support beam inside on the exterior wall is printed "opry house" Bell Steel and this was mortered over.

Now, after the opry house was opened their were STRICT rules againt allowing a drum set on stage for the grand ole' opry. No way, would not, could not happen. Forbidden, not allowed.

How long did this rule stand?

Now, Opinion!

Every industry is about change. All industries change.

What if the Broadway musical was simply an artist playing an ARP2600 and the play was built around it called patchcord mania?

Should the broadway commission dictate what kind of performances should be allowed? This would be art "controlled" IMHO. The definition of ART does not allow for it.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 3:51 pm

I don't think tommy p was far off with the crack about holographic players. BTW, the actor's union has recognized the strike. Broadway is dark tonight (3-7-03) for the first time since 1975? In a long time, anyway.

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:07 pm

Jeff,
If we as the “Unwashed Masses” can be expected to be “socially
responsible” i.e. pay taxes, respect authority, contribute to
society by being productive, conserve energy, recycle etc, why
shouldn’t the power brokers be held to a standard also? Why
shouldn’t it be an employers responsibity to hire “X amount”
of employees? Why should corporate interest be unbridled?
It has been proven in history, time and time again, when the
conservative Corporate agenda is allowed to run rampant,
rampant abuse occurs. Just as we, the people are expected
to live up to a set of standards, so should Big Money and
Corporate interests. They wouldn’t be what they are without
us. They do owe it to society. Anti Union Reganomics didn’t
work in the 80’s, it’s not working now and I for one am tired
of being “trickled on”. Kurt
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:22 pm

Let’s not forget that these people were out on the street
Dancing, singing and playing their asses off in the cold
For FREE, filming an ad for the City after 9/11 to try to
attract business back to the city. Nice way to say “Thanks”!
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:00 pm

I agree with Fats.

Social contracts go both ways.

Let's not forget that a corporation is a legal privelege (the "corpus") granted by the sovereign (we the people, through our representatives).

Abuse of imperial corporate charters was a large contributor to the war for independence. Thereafter, through much of the 19th century, the priveleges of a corporate charters were only given to those companies who could demonstrate reciprocal benefit to the state (jobs, etc.).

In other words, if I scratch your back, you scratch mine.

These days, however, many corporations seem to believe that they are only responsible to their shareholders, not to the people who gave them the legal protections which enable their commerce.

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:57 am

Although I made up my mind long ago to always avoid talking about political and social issues here at RO, I can see why I feel right at home here.

A very cool and intelligent bunch we are over here.

Anyhow, the strike is over, but the settlement needs approval by member musicians
http://www.nynewsday.com/nyc-bzmusi0311,0,7215218.story?coll=nyc%2Dtopheadlines%2Dright .

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:32 pm

A union is nothing but an employee-owned temp agency. The New York musicians are only asking for a fair share of some very substantial ticket prices. The market has set those ticket prices and anything the musicians don't make is just going to get paid out to managers and stars who need the money a lot less than the musicians do.

When recording engineers' unions went away during the late 1970s, non-union engineers' wages fell to half of what they had previously been. If union musicians have to take a substantial wage cut, that reduction will trickle down to everybody. I wouldn't be too hasty about criticizing them!

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:23 pm

I'm sorry to buck the tide, but C'mon guys get with it!

Your sympathies are well meaning but misplaced.

First of all, speaking as a one-time Broadway musician, this strike was about Union Local 802 and not about altruistic concerns for musicians. The Local was protecting their source of revenue. Let face it, it might be nice for some musicians to get a free ride and paycheck for a performance orchestrated for 10 or 11 players, but it obviously is unfair. And all the talk about the producers getting fat and making profits - the only ones really making profits are the theater owners. How about all the flops those producers invested in?

Guys, you live in a free market capitalistic society that in some strange way works fairly well. The market will ultimately correct its wrongs.

Also, you have to accept change. It's the only true constant in life. Plus, don't give me this bull about all the time devoted to education, training etc. That was their own choice. If you want to give that argument credence, how about all the steelworkers out of jobs, coal miners, telecommunications workers, web designers, etc. - you see where I'm going with this?

Music will always be alive and well and musicians will always be required to fill that void!

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:41 pm

posted by lambchop

Quote:

Music will always be alive and well and musicians will always be required to fill that void!

But will they be able to negotiate a fair living wage ? Even big name stars have agents to negotiate the deal. Stars have their fame as leverage, ordinary people get together collectively.

Are you saying the musicians would be better served without a union, or a different union other than local 802?

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:04 pm

Tommy,

You ask an interesting question that I've been pondering for some time. There are good things and bad associated with NYC's Local 802.

On one hand, I doubt the musicians would've won their recent battle on broadway without the collective bargaining power of the union, and the cooperation of other associated unions.

On the other hand, there are many downsides as well. To begin, the "benefits" suck. Yes, the insurance policy they offer is better than nothing at all, but not much. The requirements to qualify for Plan A are too high, and there is cap on claims that is way too low. Plan B isn't even worth mentioning. Most other benefits are almost non-existant. In addition, pathetic union scale is supposed to be treated as the minimum that an employer can pay, but is almost always treated as the maximum an employer will pay. In addition, there is no union distinction between experienced, high quality players and newbies that are just starting out. More times than not, Local 802 acts in it's own financial benefit, to the detriment of their constituent musicians. I could level more criticisms, but I think I've made my point.

So what's the answer? I have no idea.
:p:

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