JBL 4410 monitors

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:46 am

Looking at a set of these for my first real set of monitors. On ebay for @$400. Also considering Yamaha MSP 5's. Thoughts?

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:20 am

The 4410 is a 3-way and rather big for near field monitors. You pretty much need at least 6-ft in distance. I used to own a pair of 4410's for home stereo & TV sound, but traded them for four 4406 monitors that I now dedicate just for TV sound. The 4410's just needed to much power and distance to get the best results. I used to own the 4408's for my home studio 10-years ago and liked them a lot. They are all real workhorse's but the 1" tweeter can also cause some fatigue over long hauls so don't be afraid to use that HF level control. They all handle dynamics real well, and can surely crank out the tunes. $400 is a fair price if they have not been abused.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:36 am

AudioGaff, I am using a pair of 4408s now, and have been considering upgrading. I am interested in your opinion about the 4408s and how they hold up compared to say the Event 20/20s, Mackies etc.?
Jon

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:53 pm

About 15-years ago when I first bought the JBL 4408's there was very little to choose from in smaller professional monitors and even less that fit in the lower budget catagory. I sure wasn't going to pick the crappy sounding NS10's that everyone at the time was buying and using. I choose the JBL because I trused them and from previous experince with the JBL 4410's that I used for my TV/home stereo and from experience I had using JBL in the big studio where we had JBL 4311's and 4312's. I used the JBL 4408's for 10-year's until I decided to get serious about my home set up and upgraded to Genelec 1031's. I couldn't be more pleased with the sound or happier with the results I am getting with them.

I've not had any real experience with the Event stuff and have only heard the powered Event monitors at friends homes for their living room stereo and project studios which is not really fare to compare to any non powered monitors. The powered Event's are an ok low budget monitor but I wouldn't say they are a step up. More like a side step. The Mackie again is a powered monitor and has what I feel is hyped bass which can make them sound good, but is not what I would call realistic or accurate. Others may disagree. I just know I don't like them for recording or mixing but can use them if I have too.

What is that you don't like about the JBL? If you are not using a VERY good amp with them, then this might be a better upgrade.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:23 pm

Like DaGaff, I come from humble JBL beginnings.4311's,L100's at home,others.....they are wattage sponges.No matter what the rated wattage, they can always use a bit more.I had mine hooked up to various high gain high slew rate amps and these are what produce the best results with them.Without spending a crapload of ducats on a new set of monitors, you are not going to find a lot of quality difference in most from your JBL's.If your amp is substandard, I would look at this as a possible great improvement in your sound.

For the first poster,theres a huge difference in size and style of monitor between the 4410 and the little Yamahas.Like Gaff said, you need a big room for those 4410's.....and a big power amp.

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:03 am

Thanks for the responses. Your experience is very appreciated. I'm powering my 4408s with an old Marantz 1120 amp...vintage 1975...it has 70 watts per side. I've been told that these old amps are very good...your opinion please. I'm trying to get my studio spending priorities in line...what level should I look at to realy upgrade my monitor sound...better amp or better speakers?
PS My room is about 13.5x17 and I'm using the information I've gained here to build my room.
Thanks for your help,
Jon

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:02 pm

On the topic of JBL.. I just grabbed a pair of JBL 4401 Control Monitors. 2 way- 8" and tweet. White cone on the woof just like the you know whats! Any comments on these? I don't even know what year they are from! Thanks!

Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:51 pm

Unless you ready to spend about $1000 each for monitors, I'd get a better amp. I don't know about the Marantz as far as being a top quailty amp, but it sure doesn't have enough power or headroom for those 4408's. I'd suggest a better power amp with at least 150W per side 8-ohms. You might consider that a great quality used amp will get you way more for your money and performance than a good quality new one.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:21 am

AudioGaff, Again, thanks for the advice. When you say a "great used amp"..which one's are you suggesting I look for?
Jon

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:43 am

My first choice is a Bryston. But an older Yamaha P3xxx series or a Crown K series, a Crown PS400 would do. I'm not really up on all the makes and models of power amps off the top of my head, but if you surf the net and read the equipment list of top world class studios you'll quickly see what the most used ones are. Most of these great amps are also likely to be in the >$600 range.

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:21 am

I am puzzled over the large amount of amplifier power stated as being required for near field monitors.

Given: a comfortable mixing level of 85 dB, as per the Fletcher-Munson curve.

This means an inefficient driver producing 85 SPL only requires 1 watt to produce mixing level at 1 meter. Doubling the listening distance to 2 meters, this jumps the power requirements up to 4 watts to compensate for the -6dB inverse square loss.

Now we are needing 4 watts for 85 SPL. I suppose you can add another 10dB headroom, and that takes us to 40 watts. How much headroom is needed for 85 SPL at two meters?

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:59 am

Headroom in monitoring sound is a very logarithmic equation. Music gets compressed through the various stages of production starting i.e. with a microphone on a snare drum. The mechanical elements of a microphone will pick up the crack of a snare drum within it’s dynamic limitations, next the microphone pre-amp will forward this signal within it’s dynamic limitations, and so on. While doing your mixes, the best evidence of how much dynamic range you have preserved comes from your monitoring system, which is also very important for controlling these nuances. In regard to wattage necessary to produce a specific dB level these averaged equations go out the window in terms of dynamic range. To reproduce the instantaneous peak blast of a cracking snare drum you need the fastest slew-rate you can get, and probably about 300 watts RMS for a few nanoseconds. Any less than that, you will still hear the snare at the same volume, but compressed into the mix. Quality speakers respond to quality amplifiers. It has always been my opinion that early Crown Amps like DC300A or Phase Linear 400 (if you can find them) are sonically superior to their modern contemporaries. If your monitors are rated at 100 watts / 8 ohms, fuse them with 1.5 amp fast blow to protect from accidents. Tube amps in good condition need less power because their dampening factor is so much better.

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