Specific Ergonomic Design

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:41 pm

:)Hello! Stedel, and all.
I was thinking about design. Just about all mixing consoles have everything right where it should be. Production switchers, Chyrons, and other specific production tools are made in a way that just about anyone, with some experience, can operate these things effectively, like a car. A DAW, or DVW share common characteristics, monitors, a keyboard, and a mouse. But the software does not seem to have ergonomic considerations. I find working with most software tedious, confusing, frustrating, and pokey. I know people who can rip through software with no problems, but something ends up screwed up. File mismanagement, lost folders, a wrong keystroke, or something that slows down the pace of the work considerably. Though there are shortcuts, it seems that a persons hand/eye coordination and movement is far too wasteful when vibing on their work.
For the office, it is perfect, darn near. Why is there not a control board (replacing standard keyboard), like the Fairlight uses, available for PC, or MAC, that is key specific to A/V software, and software that is specific to that controller? I know for myself, that dedicated systems layout can run circles around generic computer layout.
Any thoughts? Maybe the production houses don’t want that kind of efficiency!
--Rick

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:38 am

Cool post Rick.
I'll be back!!! Cool

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:04 pm

Quote:

Why is there not a control board (replacing standard keyboard), like the Fairlight uses, available for PC, or MAC, that is key specific to A/V software, and software that is specific to that controller? I know for myself, that dedicated systems layout can run circles around generic computer layout.
Any thoughts? Maybe the production houses don't want that kind of efficiency!
--Rick[/QB]

OK here's my slant Rick.

The Fairlight/ProTools Controller, was I think a wasted opportunity for my needs. No high-end Focusrite mic pre's not enough analogue aux send & returns.
The ergonomics of which you speak I apprecaite - a lot namely a cohesive and functional system for both Sound & Video, running off the same platform.

I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone last night who runs his own Sound and Video studio's in Sydney.

He knows I'm establishing my own tracking studio's this year, and I asked him what he thought about Fairlight. He goes way back and remembers the first range of sequences and music systems Fairlight brought out.He then says that Fairlight is used more for post-production, and it's audio -sound features are not really considered as robust (my word, I can't remember the term he actually used, but it was comprable)compared to other platforms.

To me, this doesn't figure. Fairlight uses the same
QDC technology as it does for its MFX systems - the two integrate as a total system .

So what gives? An integrated Audio AND Video platform which ROCKS...'s pretty cool ergonomic idea to me.
How do the Fairlight MFX and Dream series...ROCK?
for you?.Kind regards
Stedel.
Cool

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:26 am

[quote].

How do the Fairlight MFX and Dream series...ROCK?
Kind regards
Stedel. Smile

Well yes, so do I. But can't you give me a little bit more? About why YOU love it?

For me the flexibilty offered in respect to analogue and digital I/O's is amazingly well thought out.For my first choice THIS ROCKS! Analogue I/O System, or 24 tracks of analogue I/O's - -AND 8 digital I/Os of my choice.

This enables me to do what I really want, which is use my analogue outboard gear (which I LOVE SHAMELESSLY) and it's priced so that I can do thing's I'd like to try, like hooking up a Quantec Yardstick (which only has digital I/O's) into my recording, mixing, and mastering chain.

I have tried software reverbs, and I have posted several times on RO re the quality of software reverb and outboard reverb.No, I'm staying outboard.

I can also use basically anything I want, from Chandler EMI Mic pre's and compressors, to Telefunken and Neve/Focusrite.

All this on a dedicated music platform that doesn't have to compromise itself through some in-elegant symbiotic relationship with a Mac or PC Computer.

As far as the internal processing of the Fairlight MFX and Dream Series...I have used systems based on the SHARC risk chips. I'm impressed, no problem, where do I sign.

Now...have I said something wrong? Should I have said this system JAZZ'S! Or this system SOUNDTRACKS! Because apparently it does all three. Really well. And portable enough to use on location.

This is ergonomic design - to have these three work areas Rock, Jazz, and Movie Soundtracks covered. and I mean well covered, by the one unit.

Anybody out there?

Kind regards
Stedel

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:04 am

well, what I don't understand how one can state that the audio side is not robust. It's the best sounding, most stable systems I've ever used. And the sound quality definitely ROCKS.

Mark

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:48 am

when I look at other forums, where people say for example that cubase or logic or nuendo or digi001 (or what else) ROCK, I think fairlight is far beyond ROCKIN´. It is the most stable, robust and reliable system I know. It´s ergonomic is the best by far and the sound doesn´t allow discussions. I use it at 24 bit 48kHz and I can say: I don´t need 96 kHz (Ups, I don´t need 96 kHz at all, but that´s another topic well discussed in all the audio forums around Wink

). Any suggestions about a stronger term than "it ROCKS?"

P.S.: I think that ergonomics are the most important thing in designing a DAW. So I bought the most ergonomic DAW. IMO in the future the DAW´s will be bought rather for ergonomics than for functions and features. Soon I think.

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:22 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Henchman:
well, what I don't understand how one can state that the audio side is not robust. It's the best sounding, most stable systems I've ever used. And the sound quality definitely ROCKS.

Mark

Good point. Exactly.

"THE TRICK"

This guy is my friend...but he sells equipment - Fairlight...Nope he doesn't sell it. So he's a friend but.....pinch of salt! He is canny, and he knows how not to discredit a product. But he'll still try and "steer" you away. Sow doubt in the mind. You know the deal, you know the spiel.

The lack of knowledge and discussion "Out There" about Fairlight - as a system that does anything - let alone ROK , is, well...stunning. You'd expect something to counter such widespread and universally recognisedStandard Sales Procedure - as demonstrated by my friend (and not to be too cynical here), known as "THE TRICK"

SMALL/MID SIZE - QUALITY STUDIOS being eatablished by people like me - not those refered in hushed, revered tones as "The Big Guys" - become confused, angry even, and think "Jeez, if their service back-up is like this..."

AN example, then I'll shut up.

1. A couple of weeks ago, my main concern cruising around up here was information about Neve based sound equipment (I like Neve) - the new ProTools HD system -was it any good? And a Topic I posted:
"What Do Australian's Know About Sound?"
after an article written by Rick O'Neil in issue 18 of my current favourite Audio magazine: "Audio Technology" - yes I prefer it to Mix Magazine.Sorry, yes I know I will burn in Hell.

I came across Christoph's Topic. Something caught my eye. It mentioned ProTools , so I stopped, pulled into the Fairlight Forum and had a read.
The result:
- I discovered a product range I had not seen advertised or discussed much in Mix, Sound On Sound, Computer Music, Future Music etc.

I had not seen Fairlight discussed much, even here on this Forum or any other Forum.

People who I respect and admire were over here checking it out. I discovered Fairlight had stuff I could buy into. I checked it out. I know as much as I do. I haven't seen, heard, touched, smelt, or breathed on one of these things, but I am now Moderator here.

But only because Christoph put "ProTools" in the title of his posted Topic:
"fairlight is too good to talk about : )? Pro Tools Import?"

Ironic huh?

Considering I was going to buy a
ProTOOLS- HD SYSTEM
system.

Maybe Fairlight are not interested in this market -
so why the hell did they go and manufacture something like The Satellite or the Merlin?

Best ERGONOMICS around - but nobody knows? And the point of that is?

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:26 pm

Oh yeah. Have I ever told you people I like to write? Particularly on stuff I'm interested in, or just plain can't figure out. Just thought I'd tell you if you hadn't noticed. Sorry. But ain't gonna stop. Some posts are short though. Like my first one to Rick here, above. Check it out if you don't believe me.......

Cool

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:40 am

Hey, stedel, pssst! Don´t blame me! Digidesign is starting to print these papers with my face on them Sad

WANTED dead or alive (better dead). I hope they don´t kill me - should I buy a PT system? Better a bigger one... Very Happy

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:28 pm

[quote]Originally posted by stedel:

Quote:

He then says that Fairlight is used more for post-production, and it's audio -sound features are not really considered as robust (my word, I can't remember the term he actually used, but it was comprable)compared to other platforms.

I respect your friends’ use of the term "not as robust", or like word...that means something! I have heard that term in some marketing approaches to show differences in products that might include size, durability, but in this case does he mean sound, or reliability, or not sexy enough?

--Rick

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:54 pm

[quote]Originally posted by stedel:

Quote:

This enables me to do what I really want to do, which is use my analogue outboard gear.... it also allows me to use
the Line 6 Echo pro, and my trusty Roland SRE555 rackmount tape Chorus/Echo-Delay/Reverb...

Thats sounds like some kind of ergonomic plan!
[quote]Originally posted by stedel:

Quote:

.
I have tried software reverbs, and I have posted several times on RO re the quality of software reverb and outboard reverb.No, I'm staying outboard.

Yea I have heard that too! From many others, I won't name names, find them yourself, hee hee :p

[quote]Originally posted by stedel:

Quote:

All this on a dedicated music platform that doesn't have to compromise itself through some in-elegant symbiotic relationship with a Mac or PC Computer.

Well, it IS called "The Dream Series".

[quote]Originally posted by stedel:

Quote:

I'm impressed, no problem, where do I sign.

Last time I had this kind of feeling was when I wanted that black and Chrome Merc.! Always lurking,

--Rick

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:03 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Hammang:

but in this case does he mean sound, or reliability, or not sexy enough?

--Rick[/QB]

Well that's what I couldn't figure out.I'm a Jaguar
person myself Rick. Says it on my RO Profile.

Mega rich Sydney Stockbroker - Rene Rivkin is reported to have described the Experience of driving his new:** -JAGUAR LUXURY SPORTS CAR-** ..as being like -"Sex On Wheel's".

I'm not about to say what Rene Rifkin said - but the Fairlight stuff does look VERY SEXY to me.
And I've been trained to recognize these things
and the potential of.

Good ergonomics design is fundamental to achieving maximun pleasure, creativity and enjoyment. Not pain.

Ergonomics may deal with problems like CFS, backstrain, and shin injury or finger loss.So the
issue of headaches in a Mac or PC based environment shouldn't be new to it.

Neither should the ability to make and not loose, money.

posted by Christoph: April 17, 2002 10:48 AM

P.S.: I think that ergonomics are the most important thing in designing a DAW. So I bought the
most ergonomic DAW"
Stedel: Cool

"IMO in the future the DAW´s will be bought rather for ergonomics than for functions and features."

Stedel
Functions & Features=Depend on Good Ergonomics.
inc. Precise, Powerful Functions & Features.
Not too much clutter: a.k.a."Bells & Whistles". What's there must be fast, powerful, sensual and musical to work with and not make you feel as though you've been in a sensory deprivation chamber for 12 hours.

Christoph"Any suggestions about a stronger term than "it ROCKS?"

Yes. Step outside Christoph.

Christoph "I think fairlight is far beyond ROCKIN´."

Maybe this is a language cultural thing?
Stronger than "ROCK"? No wonder you can't find a word.

Let's see if we can establish some common ground.

20% of the user base here says "Is Too Good For Rock".Or "Far Beyond Rockin'".

Damn it Christoph, I've got a genuine/fake/leopard skin guitar strap, hung with one mean Genuine Les Paul Guitar, played through either a genuine Marshall or Mesa Boogie amp. VALVES, not transistors. Cool

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2002 3:01 pm

Hi Rick.
I was just "chatting" with Mark Keefer on his Dream
Systems Topic/post. I thought I'd cut and paste the following (for your information).

"On Rick's post I talk about the response of a studio owner friend of mine when I told him I was going with Fairlight. If you read it, my brother
(who as I said has worked in sound recording and broadcasting..what, for 25 years now?) had the opposite reaction.
When I told him I was going to get a Fairlight system (and he knows his "stuff") he just said
"hmm, yeah Fairlight".

Because he & I are brothers, I knew what that meant - I'll translate it for you:
"I've seen everything - and my friends do soundtracks for Hanna BarBra (is that how you spell it? Bin a long time..) using Pro Tools,(remember you did some recording in their studio's at Crow's Nest in Sydney?) and we the ABC, myself included, were involved with the Olympics.Which used...?
Cool move brother, can I come and play with it?"

Kind regards
stedel

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:46 pm

Stedel, I notice that even though at least one poster (don't remember which post, sorry) asked specifically what the Fairlight systems cost. Have you drooled deeply enough to have at least a ballpark figure of cost? Or are you still adding to the mystique by evading? (I wouldn't want to cramp your style, you just never see any prices advertised - maybe they're in Mix, but that was one of the mag's I stopped taking when I finally realized I couldn't afford anything I read about - Well, things change...)

Anyway, so far everybody is talking like the proverbial yacht salesman - "If you have to ask, you can't afford it..." So, how 'bout it? I can do crass; how much is the fucking thing?

BTW, this was NOT, repeat NOT, an intended attack - you've seemed a little sensitive lately, as have others including myself; please rest assured that this is just another example of MY style, which I view as "whatever gets a laugh, makes people happy, or elucidates, not necessarily in that order..."

All seriousness aside, do you have price figures/capabilities ? I'm at least curious, and a possible convert. Thanks for listening... Steve

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2002 11:01 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by knightfly:
Stedel, I notice that even though at least one poster (don't remember which post, sorry) asked specifically what the Fairlight systems cost. Have you drooled deeply enough to have at least a ballpark figure of cost? Or are you still adding to the mystique by evading?

All seriousness aside, do you have price figures/capabilities ? I'm at least curious, and a possible convert. Thanks for listening... Steve

Hi Knightfly.
Good points. I agree, Fairlight do have a slight "yacht mystique" thing happening. I'll track down the American(?) prices for you. I only have the Aust.$...!!! (stop laughing - it used to be worth something!).

AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS HERE DON'T BE AFRAID!!!!!!!!

On to your questions…Basic question #1
(a) The Dream Satellite …41,656.92 AUS
(b) The Dream station ... 71,051.14 AUS
(c) The Merlin … 43,229.73 AUS
(d) The dream console…. 206,614.46 AUS, just for shock value.

You can adjust these prices by anything between 1/2 and 2/3's for your own area.Plus you may be able
haggle with their/your distributor - people still say the USA is the best place to shop...but

Now that you're here....A question for you....

What is the most effective, efficient, most used form of currency on The Internet?

It 's a 4 letter word: beginning with "t".

"t---"

First person to answer this Q. Correctly HERE:
"ROVirtual.e.com/HowToS ucceed?"

Get's a BIG Prize!!!!

Kind regards
Thanks for your co-operation.After you've had a go at answering the Question......please, resume your current reason for being on RO. In this case the Fairlight Forum.

"This is a journey into efficiency"....
"cat.S./"Moderator:Stedel Smile

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