Absorbant panel questions

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:30 pm

Paul-
turn on your private messaging in your Profile.

Whattaya? Too good to be contacted off the board?
Very Happy

JZ

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:44 am

Sorry, Jeff. I'm kinda new to these sites. Heck we only got television here a couple of years ago. By the way, Jeff and Ethan, I went ahead and purchased a sheet of the Certainteed brand of rigid fiberglass(4' x 10') and cut it into 2-4' x4' sections and a 2'x 4' section. Thought I'd just prop them up in the room temporarily to how much less a problem I might have. Although I could tell a bit of a difference in the mid-high frequencies- the low frequencies being excited from my drums did not change much, so the comment previously expessed concerning the bass absorbers now appears to be accurate. My son and I both play drums (no drummers jokes please) and since redoing the basement, the drums resonance is about to drive the wife nuts with sound being pumped into the whole house by my situating the kit next to a large AC return. (may have to move the kit elsewhere in the room). I can tell by this limited preliminary application of room treatment that Ethans total absorber approach will need to be undertaken. Since I'm pretty much dedicated to Ethans design for the mid/high absorbers, I suppose I may as well carry forward with the Bass units as well. I'm thinking possibly of purchasing a folding screen made up of fabric panels (seen at Oriental Imports) and attaching some rigid fibergass panels to one side to tame the drum resonance further. Any input here or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Paul

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 10:37 am

A thought on the panels to "to tame the drum resonance further". - I don't know what Oriental Express (or wherever it was) is charging, but the 'Depot has a nice supply of 3/4" plywood. Pop some of the rigid fiberglass on that. \__/ type set up with hinges at the joints.
Another thing- I worked for weeks on the 'drum noise' problem at our church. The bottom line was that in order to shut em down to a point they were not killing everyone on the stage area was to put them in a CAPSULE. Which didn't go over well and was not done. Face it (as you know), drums are LOUD. Period. And sound can,will,and does go THROUGH or AROUND objects. Especially in the lower regions of the wound spectrum. I put a wall around the whole kit and because the top was open, it was just a waste of time for the most part. Yes, the directional stuff was decreased, but....did I mention this? --> LOUD and NOISY! Very Happy

One thing that might work is just flushing the drums and limiting your percussion to the guiro! Very Happy

Jeff

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 11:47 am

Yes Yes drums are loud. But live they usually don't carry much off the stage. Course this does have a tendency to cause everyone else on stage to come up in volume. I guess thats the reason you can't run most guitar players through the house mix cause their already so loud on stage-he he. The perenial stage volume issue. But since this is a recording issue I don't have to worry with the occasional Bam!Crash!Boom! I would use my electronic drums buuuuuuuutttttttt ........they suck (have used just about all of em and samplers-just not the real deal, but I really wanted to like them- really not too bad to practice on, and other people sound ok playing them-they leave me feeling-not enough tones and textures. I've used plexiglass sheils before(what we drummers won't do to satisfy the boys in the band) changes the sound of the kit, but if all else fails...... We drummers just have to learn to play softer-and it aint easy. With the way you engineer types get that smackin snare drum sound, we want to get that sound-live, and the only way to get it is....Hit Hard. (Course THATS THE WAY WE LIKE TO PLAY Anyway) Seriously, hate to hear about the made up sound sheild Jeff, I thought I'd pick up the room divider from Oriental Imports and if this kinda worked with a mockup I could take the idea to my local metal shop and have a frame made up.(much cheaper) I'll let you know what I find.
Thanks again for your input.

Paul

Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:07 pm

Hey Jeff I am getting ready to build and have had a hard time locating this stuff. I live just north of Toledo, could I have you grab some for me (obviously I would pre pay) and come down and pick it up?Or Do you know where in the Toledo area it is available. I have only hit dead ends.thanks

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Z:
ah baloney,
There is a supplier up here who has it. Last price list :Owens Corning 700 Series Rigid Insulation (Clarke Insulation)

Type p.c.f kg./m2 Price sq/ft Price 2x4 sheet
701 1.5 24 1.5" $0.20 $1.60
702 2.3 37
703 3 48 1" $0.38 $3.04
2" $0.77 $6.16
704 4.2 67
705 6 96 2" $1.40 $11.20

I'd be willing to box it and ship it to you. FedEx is reasonable. Check into it and let me know. I've got to call them tomorrow to update, but this is probably right on, or darn near the current price. (It might not be 703, but the equivilent (how in the world is that word spelled!!?? E QUIV I or E LENT?). Max FEDEX shipping size would allow for home delivery of 9 one inch thick sheets. Maybe 5 2" sheets.

Let me know via PM.

Or email me
jeff@acidacoustics.com

Jeff

(this would mean that when I'm in Alabama I get to sleep in your couch..... Very Happy

)

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 5:03 am

I have another question for Ethan concerning the size of the bass absorbers. We can only put the panels starting up the wall about three feet. As this will make the panels in a 2' x 4' size, how will this effect the bass absorbtion from the smaller sized panels? Also, since I will probably use the furring strip method of running a long 2" x 2" block up top near the ceiling and the same about 3' from the floor, I could put the different absorbers side by side in your alternating method and with a little ingenuity possible cover the entire project with burlap or some other material. I notice on the upper bass abosorber plans the thinner piece of 1/8" plywood is set back from the lower bass absorber, due to the rigid fiberglass panel being set directly on the wall. Is there any reason I can't make the upper base absorber match the lower bass absorber plans, just with the thinner plywood face? How does this effect the performance if any? Thanks again.

Paul

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:08 am

Paul,

> As this will make the panels in a 2' x 4' size, how will this effect the bass absorbtion from the smaller sized panels? <

That's not a good idea. Cutting the box volume in half doubles the range of frequencies absorbed. Much better is to build them the full 8-foot length - or at least 6 or 7 feet - and mount them sideways on the walls instead of vertically.

> the thinner piece of 1/8" plywood is set back from the lower bass absorber ... Is there any reason I can't make the upper base absorber match <

Again that's not good because changing the box's internal volume changes its frequency range. If you really want them to look the same you could make the high-bass models just as deep, then fill in the difference with several sheets of plywood against the back wall inside the box. But that's an awful lot of work just to make the fronts line up! And I think the varying steps looks kind of cool! Smile

--Ethan

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:29 am

I didn't think of mounting the panels horizontally on the wall. I'll have to rethink my stategy for mounting. This would allow me to put 2 ea. of the bass, upper bass, and mid/high absorbers on this wall, with maybe an additional mid/high absorber placed in the middle. I agree the step look of the different absorber panels looks architecturaly interesting. Are there any other bass absorber options other than mounting these on the wall? This room is approx. 15' x 23' and will be primarily the recording area. A separate smaller control room will have to be addressed as well.

Paul

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 6:23 am

Paul,

> Are there any other bass absorber options other than mounting these on the wall? <

That's really the most appropriate place to put them.

--Ethan

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 3:44 pm

I thought I would move my drums to another area of the room primarily to get the drums from echoing through the entire house because of they're being backed up to an A/C return. I not only was able to lessen the impact upon the rest of the house but the bass buildup problem is a bit less as well, may have something to do with this new location facing the doorway to the mix room. I then decided to take one of my toms out to the garage which ajoins this area and there is no bass problem at all(at least not with this particular tom frequency). This garage is built the same as the house but has a large motor driven door. The garage is also about 75% full of household goods primarily from the renovated rooms, and the height is about 1 foot higher than the height of the homes interior rooms. Is the diffusion caused by the various items in the room taming this bass problem?

Paul

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 5:41 am

Paul,

> Is the diffusion caused by the various items in the room taming this bass problem? <

Maybe.

--Ethan

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:27 am

Thanks for all the help on this problem Ethan, I think I've asked all the questions that have been relavant to this situation. Thanks to Jeff for your generous offer concerning the "703" material.

Paul

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