What are you using to achieve overall volume?

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:17 pm

...for left handed only, sorry .

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:27 pm

Interesting thread......slider seems unusually quiet - the fact that you guy's gave him so much time was testament to the quality of this forum.

I have just joined and am learnig much just reading the posts at the moment. thanks. Smile

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:28 pm

Ammitsboel wrote:

Michael Fossenkemper wrote:

you should dither that large type if you reduce the font.

I believe that it's called aliasing in grafik workstations.

But maybe I could truncate it using a noise algorithm in the program MAX/MSP or Super Colider... and if I remember correctly there also is a program related to MAX that's actually called Jitter!?

In graphics dithering is the term used for error-distribution algorithms when reducing color depth, basically the same as in audio.

When reducing image size you will want to anti-alias, because aliasing is what happens if you don't.

*g*

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:51 pm

Hmmmm... interesting ! Looks like we are looking for the same thing. Wink

Posted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:38 pm

l0calh05t wrote:

Ammitsboel wrote:

Michael Fossenkemper wrote:

you should dither that large type if you reduce the font.

I believe that it's called aliasing in grafik workstations.

But maybe I could truncate it using a noise algorithm in the program MAX/MSP or Super Colider... and if I remember correctly there also is a program related to MAX that's actually called Jitter!?

In graphics dithering is the term used for error-distribution algorithms when reducing color depth, basically the same as in audio.

When reducing image size you will want to anti-alias, because aliasing is what happens if you don't.

*g*

Thanks for the input! Thumbs Up

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:56 am

I have a simple question.

I am not looking for a secret, or even a technique to mastering. I can usually get my stuff souding as loud as I want just using Logic (but then again I'm not mixing my stuff for the radio...and if I was so lucky... they'd probably make me use a pro ME). SO... I'm just wondering if you have a favorite mastering software (or can recommend a few). I have looked at peak, but I'm not even sure it does much more than a regular DAW. The thing is... right now I just put all my final tracks in logic in the same file to try and get some continuity...then i use crappy Itunes to burn.

-Louie

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:14 am

Any other forum would have gone berserk on Slider for that outrageous and insulting response, and flamed him to death in evil and childish fashion

Not here, just a bit of sarcasm really. Obviously the average age here must be somewhere above 30, not 13, like your average web forum.

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1881 Location: NYC

He seemed to have gone elsewhere to get the holy grail. Or maybe he did find that magin black box.

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:21 pm

One more thing to add to the list of compression, limting or clipping is simply making sure that the spectrum is balanced in a way that makes it want to be loud - which when going for apparent level can sometimes mean bringing the mid's quite a bit forward. Case in point is a remastering job I did for a couple of rock CD's - in both cases they had crushed the crap out of them with a peak limiter but the tracks still seemed incredibly quiet because there was an extremely exaggerate "smily face" curve with just lows and highs (does this sound like a case of a pre-set "masterizer" to you?) but no meat in the mids - where the ear is most sensitive to volume.

Anyway - just wanted to mention this also - but as far as everyone else has pointed out - there ain't no magic bullet.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:25 pm

Many enlighting issued touched here. Ive really learned alot!! Sometimes we do need an ass around here like the fellow who started the post to really see how stuff works. Keep up the good replys!!

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:47 am

flesymekili wrote:

I'm just wondering if you have a favorite mastering software (or can recommend a few). I have looked at peak, but I'm not even sure it does much more than a regular DAW. -Louie

"Mastering software" is really nothing more than an EDL that you can properly create a Redbook compliant PMCD (or other approved delivery format) from.

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:43 am

yeah, i agree to john, henrik and micheal,
slider if you really want to learn something, LISTEN there is no magic that's how it goes, or this is what you have to use in general, very nicely pointed out from john, EXPERIENCE of many, many, many, many years is the key.

EVERY MIX / TRACK is DIFFERENT, why do you think that there are only a "few" mastering engineers out there???

it's about learning to listen, and then knowing what and how to apply,
out of experimentation, experience, and long years of practise, no golden rule... nearly all technical gear, no matter if soft or hardware, can make thinks a bit louder and louder and louder.... till your def.
a.

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:06 am

Slider wrote:

We get it you know it all.
Now let someone who actually knows what they're doing answer.

Ok, I didn't know wheter you're really ready for this, but here comes the secret answert for perfect super-loud mastering. And the great thing is, you don't even need those super-expensive toys mastering engineers have in their studios to distract the clients (like Eddie did to you) while they do the super-secret mastering schtick.

First, let us assume you have your tracks available as one left and one right track in one or two PCM-coded files of any depth and rate.

Step one: Convert from L/R to M/S. Bring down the S content (by doing "delete" or "insert silence" or "normalize to -inf." in your editor). Convert from M/S to L/R.

Step two: Bandpass to 2k-5k. With this, you limit the energy in your music to the frequency range where the human hear is most sensitive. This not only helps you get apparent loudness, it also helps you to ruin the ears of your listeners. A lot of DJs also work along these lines!

Step Three: Normalize

Step Four: Use a brickwall limiter (actually, L2 would be ok) to limit your track. The goal here is to compensate for musicians and/or arrangers who actually built soft/loud parts and dynamics into the song. Be sure to use a short release time so you're near redline almost constantly. Thresholds of -12dB are fairly normal at this stage. Again: the trick is to set the release time really short (in the 40ms range), and be sure to turn any dithering/noiseshaping things off to not compromise the integrity of the signal in the -90dB and below range!

Step Five: Clip. Most of the stuff we have now is contained in sine waves. If you calculate the power (or energy) of your audio signal (which is similair to what the RMS value tells you), you will find that if you integrate over a sine function, you retain a 1/SQRT(2) factor. relative to optimum power efficiency. To compensate for this, you drive your signal heavily into the redline, so you get (nearly) square waves, which have the best power efficiency there is. Some "vintage" people use analogue gear for this, I'd recommend a pair of ZVEX Super-Duper-Two-In-One with both stages turned on and both gain dials (the left and right ones) cranked. Of course, use the master volume in combination with the gain of your tube DI to avoid clipping your A/D converters!

The result, and I can guarantee this, will be considerably louder than everything else you've heard before (except perhaps for some tracks by Merzbow, who realize this process as part of composing their material). Your RMS values will come close to the 0dB marker. It will sound extremely loud on almost any kind of playback equipment like MP3 players with cheap 'phones, kitchen radios, car HiFi...you name it. The only playback device it won't sound loud on would be a stand-alone subwoofer. And by the way, you can even be sure it's safe to make a record (as in vinyl) from this master!

All the best,

Rainer

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:22 am

Yep, that'll get it loud all right... Laughing

Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:19 pm

I have talked (plenty) about this before. I make loud records also. But I can tell you I personally do no added anything to make the record louder. It's a combination of the right gain staging and EQ.

I have seen other engineers put a limiter after they are done and just up the volume. Whatever works for you.

Some clients just want louder louder louder. As the engineer you sometimes get stuck. Now I get people asking after I've mastered it if I could make it louder about once a year. Last week I did a record, singer songwriter kind of thing, very cool vibe. He told me he loved the sound but it wasn't as loud as a particlular record he liked. I have the record also, it's great, but louder than it should be and I can hear the cymbals turn to hash at point.
I told him I make your record the same level but that will start to do the same thing. Luckily he said no, I love the sound.
Some clients say they don't care I want it louder. I tell them what the trade off is. It's their record, If making it a little louder makes them happy that's what I will do.

The L2 gets a bad rap sometimes. It's a fine tool. Probably the most abused, misused tool of the last couple years.

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