To all the Behringer lovers I've wronged before...

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:10 am

I'd just like to set something straight because it seems that quite a few of you have taken what I've said out of context.

I do not hate Behringer gear, however I choose not to use it myself anymore after a few different bad experiences with it due to build and sonic quality.

I do not hate people that use Behringer gear. Hey, we all have to start somewhere and if $60 is all you have to spend on a pre-amp or $300 for a set of reference monitors then by all means, go for it. I'm not an elitist and I certainly don't mix on a million dollar mixer. I am also not a professional by any stretch of the imagination, I am a regular user that knows a little bit about gear and I like to help out by giving my opinion on what knowledge I have gained from my own research. You may agree with me, or you may disagree with me... and that is fine. Not everyone agrees with Kurt or Davedog on this board either, but most of us listen up when they have something to say.

My opinion on most Behringer gear is that for just a little more, you can get much better quality... and by a little more I don't mean 300% more. You can get even better deals if you don't mind buying used, like what I did. Yes it is true, the best gear in the world is not going to make a recording sound good if the person behind it doesn't know what they are doing. Definately. It does make the job a little easier however.

If you like Behringer stuff, great... that's all that matters. If you ask me my opinion, I will give it to you. I think for the most part its not very good - it's unreliable and doesn't sound all that great to boot. Hey, most things that cost more are better... guitars, amps, recording gear, cars, computers, etc. They have a better build quality, more features, more QA, better workers, everything. The question is where the cost vs performance doesn't make sense for you anymore.

I apologize to anyone who thought I was "being snobby" for what I said... I most certainly did not want to come across like that. For what it's worth, I was trying to give my opinion on something that I feel pretty strongly about. Maybe I went about it in the wrong way and maybe I used some words that were too harsh. In any event, I don't want anyone to think I'm an idiot on the board so if I offended you then I'm sorry.

I have decided to no longer comment on any Behringer gear since it seems that there are a lot of people here that think it is great, and when I do I get jumped on by 10 people saying either 1, it's great gear if you don't have any money, (but then isn't a 6$ computer mic great gear if you can't afford a 15$ radio shack one?) or 2, it's not the gear but the guy behind the gear. Both very logical arguments with merits, but not really against the point I was trying to make. It's because of this I will stay out of future discussions involving this since I don't want it to become a mud slinging match. This board is a valuable resource to everyone and I know if I was an outsider I wouldn't want everyone fighting on here.

Hope this clears everything up and if you have any questions or comments please post below. Thanks!

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:26 am

Hey. everything has its time and place. For a newbie starting out, behringer might just be the gnat's ass. After a while you outgrow it, if you are serious about your art. A few pieces of Behringer gear are useful in an upgraded studio. The headphone amp comes to mind, also the control surface. they do just about everything the more expensive gear does, for a lot less. Also the ADA 8000 is surprinsingly clean if you need an xtra 8 inputs via adat. i don't have one but I have heard it and would not hesitate to get one if I needed an xtra 8 tracks via adat on a pinch.

A couple of pieces that are pretty terrible and I have heard also come to mind- forget the B1 mic- buy the b1 from sp instead. Also their pod kcnock off is not very good and most of their preamps suck. Their mixers are usually really noisy and dull sounding. I know, I bought one for sound reinforcement when we had a live stage on weekends in my old studio. Should have gotten an used mackie instead, but it was hard to resist 16 ch new for 200+ bucs... live and learn.
I also heard their bass amp and the tone sucks- but hey, $300 for 100 watts is hard to resist for people on a budget and many will fall for it.

All and all, like I said, a lot of this gear is useful for newbs starting out- we all gotta go through our growing pains. Of course you are better off saving your money and getting quality gear but it is hard to wait. I know.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:27 am

I don't think anyone wants you to stop commenting, every opinion counts, just refrase it and understand that most people asking about Behringer, are obviously not experienced for example, instaed of

Behringer Suck

or

All Behringer is crap

how about

If you feel serious and can wait you really should save up and get a (instert product here), it has better (mic pre's, well more than likely), and will be better for you as you record/play live in the future.

I just don't like people being kind of a jerk about it, I don't think Behringer stuff is great, but I do think it has a place, on the low rung of equipment, well some of it, they make some stuff that can be considered middle of the road, but I don't think they make anything that can be scientifally considered AWESOME!!!! (notice the four, yes FOUR exclimation marks, that is the sign of great gear, just FYI)

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:29 am

Quote:

I also heard their bass amp and the tone sucks

I don't know about the amps, never WANT to even consider owning one, but acording to my Bro, who is a damn good bass player, they have some very cool Bass cabs, he is planning on getting one

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:30 am

crispytheone88 wrote:

I don't think anyone wants you to stop commenting, every opinion counts, just refrase it and understand that most people asking about Behringer, are obviously not experienced for example, instaed of

Behringer Suck

or

All Behringer is crap

In my defense, I don't believe I ever just said Behringer suck without stating why, or said all Behringer is crap. However, that is neither here nor there.... point taken.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:14 pm

No you didn't

Very Happy

I do agree with btw, if you can afford it, it is better to buy something that you can use long term

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:25 pm

This should show you guys that owning Behringer gear is not about starting out. This is a studio of a guy I met while working in Branson....Check out his gear and client list and tell me........if It makes any difference what equiptment one has.

http://www.nothm.com/equipframe.htm

Even Big studios with BIG clentel have behringer in their racks.

ITS NOT ABOUT the gear. Let the Elitists keep up with each other Jonesing for the lastest "pre amp of the day."You guys with smaller budjets and common sense work with what you have . There is no reason one cannot make a great sounding CD project with any of todays gear, regardless of price if you have an ear.

All the hi dollar gear studios going out of business is a testament to that.

Clients dont buy gear.....they buy ears.......

You guys with Behringer anything.....Don't fret and don't allow anyone to tell you its junk. It has a purpose and serves it well enough.

Only those who need to impress show off the high dollar crap. Pre amps are one of the most over rated pieces of gear in a studio. I d rather spend the money on a decent set of monitors.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:59 pm

kingfrog wrote:

This should show you guys that owning Behringer gear is not about starting out. This is a studio of a guy I met while working in Branson....Check out his gear and client list and tell me........if It makes any difference what equiptment one has.

http://www.nothm.com/equipframe.htm

Even Big studios with BIG clentel have behringer in their racks.

ITS NOT ABOUT the gear. Let the Elitists keep up with each other Jonesing for the lastest "pre amp of the day."You guys with smaller budjets and common sense work with what you have . There is no reason one cannot make a great sounding CD project with any of todays gear, regardless of price if you have an ear.

All the hi dollar gear studios going out of business is a testament to that.

Clients dont buy gear.....they buy ears.......

You guys with Behringer anything.....Don't fret and don't allow anyone to tell you its junk. It has a purpose and serves it well enough.

Only those who need to impress show off the high dollar crap. Pre amps are one of the most over rated pieces of gear in a studio. I d rather spend the money on a decent set of monitors.

Your argument is not very convincing.

This guy for one has a very LARGE list of excellent recording equipment, and a total of 2 Behringer products. Both of which I bet he hardly uses, but I could be wrong. 99% of his gear is very good and not budget in the least.. so I would have to say his experience coupled with his gear is making his sound. One compresser and a "de-noiser" isn't going to make or break his quality.

Also, where are the so called BIG cliental? I see a list of mp3s on the site but I haven't heard of any of the artists... maybe I'm just not in the loop which could very well be. I'm not trying to be an ass, just curious that's all.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:34 pm

You must be a younger guy if you don't know those names. Thats fair. But realizie what you have. The ability to record with gear whos quality would have cost much more 15 years ago and way more 25 years ago. Even the Behringer stuff of that quality wuld have been very expensive. Thats the problem. You guys are hung up on names ans flavor of the day rather then what can you do with what you have.

The point is he is not embarrased to include those listings (as Im sure you would be) as well as the DBX compressors. Many on these boards are afraid to claim they have Behringer gear and thats wrong. Its not that bad. Even by todays standards and especially the bang for the buck factor.

Garys clients are or have been MAJOR acts in country music. Many who have or had there own theaters. Acts that can afford to go anywhere including the Pro Tools based more modern facilities in Branson.

Its not about the gear. IN his case he does have some nice gear but its not the end all in any category.

I remember when digital was brand new. Analog was noisy and dull.........everybody had to have digital this and digital that. Even though the converters by todays standards were terrible. Then all of a sudden the "warm" analog sound everyone wanted to get away from was again king and thus tubes became all the rage and retro equiptment.....Now they sell CDs containing antique and harsh 8 bit samples processed through $2000 pre amps....Funny stuff.

Its like the flavor of the day.....I remember in the 70's when tubes used to be a pain in the ass...and solid state was the savior...Not that long ago....now everybody wants tube this and that.....Before my time guys wore short waxed hair......now short moosed hair is back......

Nothing is new....may as well just make music and not worry about brand . Its all pretty good especially when considering the content of todays CD as well as the end devices many are playing back on.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:44 pm

Yeah I am younger and I don't listen to Country music so that would do it. Smile

Just curious since you seem to have been around... what do you like better for sound? New digital equipment, or vintage analog equipment?

Tom

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:44 pm

I know Behringer Compressor and some of the other signal processors they make can be quite good, and better than some more expensive models, so this does not suprise me, I had a guy who was a audophile nut, but was smart enough not to care about brand name, just performance, he has a Behringer Feedback destroyer, and some other stuff.

Like I said, some they do make some pretty good stuff

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:46 pm

crispytheone88 wrote:

I know Behringer Compressor and some of the other signal processors they make can be quite good, and better than some more expensive models, so this does not suprise me, I had a guy who was a audophile nut, but was smart enough not to care about brand name, just performance, he has a Behringer Feedback destroyer, and some other stuff.

Like I said, some they do make some pretty good stuff

Of that I have no doubt, I just haven't had the pleasure of using one of those boxes yet.

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:01 pm

Quote:

ust curious since you seem to have been around... what do you like better for sound? New digital equipment, or vintage analog equipment?

Old stuff to me is like having a 1969 Corvette. Nice to look at and the wow factor and all. But it's expensive, has none of todays creature comforts, drives like crap and is maintinance intensive. The bang is the wow factor not the technology. And with today's software you can create any sound from any sound....especially if you are going backwards in fidelity from digital to analog.

I prefer gear that gives me what I want from it, without regard to its nameplate or age. I have and really like the Joe Meek VCQ1 pre Amp.It is the end all for me. I am satisfied and it does well enough for my mics which consist of an AKG 414 and Rode NT2..( I prefer the Rode) There is not too much in the studio that can be said of.....end all. But you cant keep waiting for the next bus. Ya got to get on and go somewhere on the bus thats stopped.

I used to do that years ago. Never put a CD together because I was always waiting for some new module or gear to come out. So Id record and stash songs. Then when I finally after 15 years have the opportunity to sell my music in venues I went back and made a compilation of 15 years worth of recordings from various apartments and stuio setups I had over the years and mastered them to sound as close to each other as possibles and sold them!!!
I was smart enough to put the lastest material first, LOL

Although I put in the liner notes the dates the music was recorded
No one ever came to me and said there was technical issues. And there were indeed. Some songs were recorded on a Tascamm 244 some on my current digital set up..... LOL.

People are not that hip to recording technique. They listen to the song as a whole not with "engine EAR"as I call other self producers....and studio rats..... I learned a lot from that experience I had wished I knew years ago.....lol. I could have saved a bundle....But we live we learn.

Today is as good as its gonna get though. (64bit 244khz recordings anybody? not me......)

Our human ears a very limited in what we can hear or not hear compared to the specs and availability of even the some of the cheapest audio equiptment today on both sides of the fence....and you can take that to the bank.

There has to be a point at which the music is more important, unless you are just into the producing/engineering part. Then your screwed because it NEVER ends. Always something new and "better"?? .. I also have an ART VLA. Compressor I dont use much but kept anyway. I happen to like optical compression over VCA as you can see.

I prefer the digital stuff over all. Becasue as I said above I can always degrade a perfect digital signal to a lesser fidelity analog signal using a variety of SW and boxes. Iin a home enviornment where you can easily have electrical ground issues the less cables the better.

. In fact when I get off this job and get back to Vegas in May, Im putting all my rack gear up on Ebay and going completely digital except for the Meek. The software efx are fantastic nowadays and theres no need for all the rack stuff in my case anymore. Just a couple pre amps and a good converter with decent pre amps will do fine.

I only use the rack stuff for monitoring anymore through a Mackie 24-4 which is also going away. Thinking about buying the Tascam 1884 to replace a lot of the analog stuff.

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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:55 pm

Having just bought my first piece of Behringer gear I have had no dealings with them before BUT!!! I just bough the Vampire guitar amp and I"ve got to say that for 500 dollars where can you buy a 412 cabinet with Jenson speakers,120 watts or 60/60 stereo with over 120 effects that you can ether mike or use xlr cables stright to your mixer, IN STEREO ? And besides all that, it sounds great.
The only thing I"ve found I don"t like about it is the reverb is a little weak, no big deal.
As for their other equipment, I can"t say but for anyone wanting a muti-function amp for stuido work check this amp out. I belive you will be very happy with it"s proformance,and so will your wallet.

Brock.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:38 pm

And thats what Behringer has always and still does best across the board. Seemingly give you more for way less. If your happy with it all the better.

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