Im new

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:20 pm

OK 187 Here another voice from someone who has had a Home Studio on various incarnations for 30 years and who has access to the better and best stuff at friends studios.. I don't claim to be a pro by the industry standards. Just a regular Joe who records himself and others for profit part time and sells CDs.

You do NOT need to buy the Avalon or Mackies, or any other high end gear based soley on what "experts" on this board claim are industry standards. Home studio "standards" Im sure are much different. After all you are building a HOME studio in your bedroom .

This is what my approach has been and works for me. For ALL your gear USE YOUR ears not someone elses ideas. Eliminate those you wont pay up to first. Try a variety of gear. Take a friend if possible. sales people can tweak any gear to make it "Appear" better. A/B with a CD or source you know well . CLOSE YOUE EYES and listen. You might be surprised at your choice. This works with Mics, pre amps, monitors best. THen after you find a piece you like A/B it with an "industry standard" piece costing much more. You WiLL have a much better idea of the cost/ benefit ratio. As well you might save a lot of money and know YOU chose the gear blindly that sounded the best to YOU.

I did this with pre amps comparing a with DBX, ART, and low end Focusrite, Joe Meek VCQ1 and i liked what VCQ1 sounded like best. Then I A/b d the Meek with the $1700 Avalon and guess what? The price benefit ratio just did not justify the added cost of the Avalon and I have been happy and more importantly not feeling, like the Meek is a temporary solution......

I bought a pair of Alesis Monitor Ones and thought I should upgrade them so I bought a pair of the in that day "new stars."The Mackie HR 824 (eturn policies are great)and placed them in my studio side by side on an A/B switch...I was able to get the Alesis Amped Monitor Ones with the help of a sub to sound very close to the Mackies using EQ. Again the Mackies went back. But MORE importantly I found a new respect for my Monitor Ones. I am now looking for a pair of Active Monitors to replace them and move them to another room. Im interested in the Event Precisions 8s and will AB thn with the Alesis Mark II and Warfdales which I have heard good things about. Then a pair of Genelcs last

I tried many mics including the Shure sm44, Neuman Tl103, and AT 4050 (much like the 414)and settled for the warmer soundng Rode NT2 to compliment an old Akg 414 which I personally find Brittle. The Meek Rode combination is a winnier for me and I do not feel the need to go upscale like so many say is inevitable.

You cannot blindly act on what those who spent $10,.0000 on three pieces of gear say. Of course they are going to feel its the way you HAVE to go or predict you will go there anyway . Otherwise they look like industry standard Lemmings. rather than knowlwgable "pros" with 20 years of experience.

Your own ears will giv you all the answers you need and YOU will be happy with your gear and may never feel the need to "upgrade" to studio standards.

Regarding Pro Tools. Unfortunately Pro Tools for reasons that have little to do with TODAY'S product is very common but is in its format and plug ins. I don't need to tell you what propietary can cost you. Many other software platforms do convert to Pro tools format OMF. So you are not bound to them either.

Use you ears and ALWAYS A/B with the best gear. You will either feel good about your less expensive brand or have to have the best. either way you will be satisfied for a long time.......

The bottom line is I saved thousands and am very happy with my result which has been positivly graded by real pro engineers who have major studios and have recorded Major recognizable names. They were encouraging and even a bit surprised at the quality available to us Home "producers" Comments were akin to EQ adjustments to get a fatter low end on my orchestrata samples. Not noise or gear issues. I have learned to sqeeze the last bit out of this gear.

Total cost? $600 for the VCQ1, $399 for the Rode...kept the Monitor Ones. All tracked throuh a Mackie board to an Aardvark L6 using seconday monitors consisting of Radio Shack minimus 7s

He showed me how to use a high budget recording by Sting and others as referenced to the syyle of music Im doing as a referece to get the sound, space and EQ balance I want. This is priceless for those with inferior monitors this way because you can use any monitor to mix on . Recording reference monitoring is much more critical but still is possible to achieve to satisfaction.

Good luck I hope this alternate opinion helps

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:15 am

Great reply It's good to know Im not doomed cause im not rich!
But unforunatly I don't have the luxary of testing/ comparing anything blindly or otherwise Im in Canada,Winnipeg specificly and we only have two places that sell this kind of stuff Ive only been going to one tho I'll check out the other one when the time permits.but I called them yesterday to get a price check on the DSP 820's but it never came up in the computer only the 720 model so I called the one Ive been going to ever since I got myself into this and they sent a order for them and I put down a deposit today...I know it's not the smartest thing but I dont have any means of testing them first so Im just gonna pray,lol.I'll be getting my interface next...Here's my future set up.(for recording)

Custom PC
P4P800-E Deluxe/865PE+ICH5R chipset
P4 3.0
1024MB dual channel DDR 400 Ram
Two 200 GB Hd's in a Raid 1 config (Audio)
External Hd not sure whats a good size (OS/Programs)

Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's (monitors)
RME Multiface(interface)
MIDIsport 4x4(midi interface)
Presonus Eureka (preamp)
Shure KSM27 (mic)

Adobe Audition 1.5
Cubase SX 3
Ozone 3

I personaly think this is a great set up...Of course upgrades will take place but this is a good start for me.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:26 am

Others may scoff but i think you have a good basis to begin putting your music on CD. You will learn to squeeze the most out of your gear. Do not buy anything expensive before listening to the result to see if it's worth the expense for you. Nothing is worse then spending too much for something and having your expectations dashed by a nice but relativly small difference in what you hear in the final mix under microscopic aural conditions.Lets face ot most people do not listen to a CD as critically as those who record and mix it. And at that in high background moise situations as well. So much is wasted on little tweaks that will go generally unappreciated.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:43 am

Agreed

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:29 pm

Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

You only get one chance to be heard sometimes. Do you want it to be as good as possible. get some good front end. No way around it. Don't give a sh*t? Then by all means cheap out. "It's all in what you value", as George Harrision once wrote.

It would be sad to be left wondering what may have happened if you had traveled that extra mile. I say make it as good as you can. frog says don't worry, no none knows the difference. I say someone does, or else why all the high end gear? Just because frog is deaf, doesn't mean everyone is... Which sounds right to you? As good as you can, or good enough? It's your call. Rolling Eyes

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:33 pm

Quote:

Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

You only get one chance to be heard sometimes. Do you want it to be as good as possible. get some good front end. No way around it. Don't give a sh*t? Then by all means cheap out. "It's all in what you value", as George Harrision once wrote.

It would be sad to be left wondering what may have happened if you had traveled that extra mile. I say make it as good as you can. frog says don't worry, no none knows the difference. I say someone does, or else why all the high end gear? Just because frog is deaf, doesn't mean everyone is... Which sounds right to you? As good as you can, or good enough? It's your call

And that diatribe 187 comes from your moderator!!!! Rolling Eyes

Let YOUR ears be the final word. If someone likes you songs you will het a deal and they will rerecord it anyway. A good song will be good using piano voice on a cassette recorder. No one expects masters from newbies. If you want a master go to a studio and make one.on someone elses' dollar,

If you want to make music and record in your bedroom and have a budget don't feel opportunity will pass you by because you did not have an Avalon Pre amp. You won't ge a deal becasue your recordings are technically perfect.

There are a whole lot of other things that will apply as well. Credible Record producers and A+R reps can "hear" a song in any mix. If not they will not be in business long. Most starving artists cannot buy the best gear. They know that.

Im here to say you don't need it until YOU feel your quality need upgrading. In the mean time go with what you can afford and start recording and learning.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:38 pm

ohhhh! interesting you would call that a diatribe ... I guess I'm not supposed to have an opinion? Why is it that people who can't answer a post with something intelligent always revert to that ... "You're a mod ... you should kiss everyone's a$$. You shouldn't be capable of forming a thought or offering a personal opinion"

I'll tell you what frog ... why don't you buy RO and then you can dump me and run it the way you think it should be run. Otherwise, knock it off.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:45 pm

frog, self appointed nominee for RO moderator wrote:

No one expects masters from newbies. If you want a master go to a studio and make one.on someone elses' dollar,

Spoken like a true user and a taker but I don't agree ... Every project I heve ever sold to a record company was completly recorded by me. Record companies, industry muckie mucks and publishers want to work with people who have invested in themselves already.

Look at it this way ... what would you feel more comfortable with putting a lot of cash into. Something that the pricipals are already invested in or something that the proncipals could walk away from and suffer no losses?

Average money spent on an artist prior to a record deal ... about a million bucks .. who is gonna pony up, if you won't even invest in yourself?

frogs advice is some of the worst I have ever read on the RO pages ...

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:25 pm

.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:27 pm

Quote:

Look at it this way ... what would you feel more comfortable with putting a lot of cash into. Something that the pricipals are already invested in or something that the proncipals could walk away from and suffer no losses?

Many artists are not expected to be producers or engineers no matter what they gear they record with. I think many would agree with that. And that being so would one buy a $3000 guitar before the first lesson? The guitar sound's great but the user cannot make it shine. A waste of money until the user knows enough to appreciate the advantage and wants said advantage.

If you ask me I'd feel more comfortable putting cash into TALENT and the music.. The quality of the Home made recording is not something I will judge talent on. But I come from the artst persprctive and many here are from the technical perspective and perhaps in some small way resent the artists even getting involed on the technical side via Home Studios.
.
There is a whole lot more than a recording that goes into getting a deal then a sqeeky clean demo.

When it becomes a requirement that artist's financial ability to produce a industry standard CD comes into play with regard to getting signed or not, the labels are in trouble......no wait ...they are in trouble. Go figure.

Boston was the only band I know of that went in with a demo made in a basement Home studio which became a release....anyone else anyone know of?

Sooooooo anyway

Well 187 Looks like your gonna have to spend $10.000 dollars on gear if you have any chance of being signed......not that that is even a goal of yours..Whip out those credit cards son . You will have no credibility as an Artist unless you do so.

Keep crushing dreams Kurt.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:59 pm

to be honest Mr foster you are quite narrow minded.

"that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket."

I actually will be doing fantastic work with the gear I can afford which isnt bad gear at all If I would say anything in my set up isn't up to par would be the preamp and mic and even so it isn't so bad...theres people buying MXL mics and 200-pre's,audiophiles,Bx'5's,mk 2's,tr8s,and berrie mixers and other "budget" gear, even knoweldgable people can make good recordings with that type of stuff.And to be honest I am going that "extra mile"...I work at subway for fluc sakes!you can't imagine how much sacrafice/time and hard work it takes to get the gear that isn't up to YOUR standards for someone like me.When I get some extra income I will be upgrading but imo the only thing that needs upgrading is the pre and mic.Ive allready contacted a engineer to do the tasks that I wont be able to.and besides I speciialize in producing the "Music" ie instrumentals.The only reason Im getting the mic and preamp is to be able to record vocals in general wither there just scratch vocals or just to get ideas down...Im not building a recording falicity...yet.also keep in mind this is a project studio and if you don't think I can make a great demo with the gear Ive listed you need to check yourself.I understand that mabey you need the greatest gear so you don't have to do any real work and just let the gear do it for you but with some dedication,patience,and some knowledge you can get great results by knowing how to utilize what you have rather than expecting another piece of high end gear to make you any better.
I don't think this is the right enviroment for me to learn anything productive if even the mods don't have common sence...So Im going to find my place elsewhere,I enjoyed my short stay.Good luck everyone,and the best of luck to mr foster/staff with the site.

-peace

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:03 pm

"Boston was the only band I know of that went in with a demo made in a basement Home studio which became a release....anyone else anyone know of?"

Pretty much every hip hop artist in the industry...Notorious BiG got a major record deal....his demo was a warped tape with him just doing his thing over some beats,a man and a mic with music in the backround.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:04 pm

Sorry to see you go.

Im sure "Mr Foster" would rather see me go .......

Best of luck.................

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:00 pm

Quote:

Pretty much every hip hop artist in the industry...Notorious BiG got a major record deal....his demo was a warped tape with him just doing his thing over some beats,a man and a mic with music in the backround.

Did'nt know that. Im not to up to date in the Hip Hop/Rap thing except that it is very inexpensive to record. Pre recorded loops and some vocals. I know Im simplifying it but it cannot be as difficult as recording an entire band. Alot of Lo Fi 8 bit samples as well.....lol recorded through $2500 pre amps....gotta love the "state of the art"

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:04 pm

duplicate post deleted Shocked

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