To all the Behringer lovers I've wronged before...

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:03 pm

Sproll I know you wont read this but for others I will answer......some points you make. I am not going to defend my posts regarding Kurt. People can read them and come to their own conclusons as did you.

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everyone knows, deep down in their hearts, that you can't buy the Ford Pinto of audio gear and expect a Ferrari F40 in return.

Ah Duh? I never said that anywhere but hey some cannot comprehend what they read very well. I understand. But what everyone needs to know is you do not NEED a Ferrari to get from here to there. There are other very nice and credible choices.

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The other, which I like even more... is to let kingfrog post here all he wants, and just for everyone else to ignore him. Really though people, do we need what he is contributing to this board? Personal attacks on people's opinions, choices, professional career, demeanor and overall character? I say screw him. We don't need that. We are here for one thing only, to learn from the people with experience about MUSIC.Personally, I'm never reading another one of his posts again. He has lost any credibility whatsoever that he used to have in my opinion. Have some respect.

Ah Duh! On any forum people will read posts from those they give some credibility to. Some will read mine some won't . Just like I do.
You have made your decision now stick to it.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:30 pm

frogs sig line wrote:

*all the the above is personal opinion only......

What's with that? I guess frog knows he is slandering people and he want to cover his ass ....

The more this all goes on, the more I suspect this guy is here on some sort of mission to carry out a specific agenda.

frog wrote:

I am not going to defend my posts regarding Kurt.

Of course you won't. because you can't. Come on ... who the fu*% are you? Come out from behind that bullsh*t screenaname you use ... regeister with a real name and e mail addy .. What are you hiding or afraid of? (excuse me, I need to sneeze, chickensh*t! ... pardon me) Who are you really? I heve been registered here under the same name (real) for over 2 years now. Everyone knows who I am and what I have done.

frog wrote:

You have made your decision now stick to it.

Of course frog only wants to argue with me because he knows I have a rep for getting into squabbles. When others post telling him he's an idiot, it's an indication that he's waaaay off base, which screws up his world.

frog, Where do you get off trying to tell people what to do here? You are not a moderator. You have no standing here. Quit trying to bully and shove people around. What a jerk!

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:02 pm

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Once again ... I never said that and your repeating the mantra endlessly in quotation marks will not make it so. If you're going to make comments on things I said, it would be better if they were actually things I said. Otherwise, you only make yourself look like a schmuck, especially when you don't even spell the words correctly.

I posted a link to you comment and you tried to explaine it away earlier.

Its nice that you have defenders however that does not in my eyes increase credibility. Its the "quality" of the defenders that is key.

Spelling is of no consequence here. Mostly typing issues. Communication is the key.

A mispelld or typd werd duz not mak da cumikatshun invalid. c?

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As far as your list of "preper gear" that is depreciating, if you know anything about business, you will understand you can write the depreciation off the tax's. Of course, you have to make money with your music, in order to be able to write off depreciation. Maybe that's an expierence you haven't had as of yet.

My point was to prove you wrong when you claimed the better gear is a better investment when it comes to resale. Clearly you are wrong about that and the more expensive the gear no matter what brand in most cases the more you are tied to it financially becasue you will lose a lot more in MOST cases. This goes for many big ticket items.

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It's interesting to me, that you know how to put that information together. My hats off to you. I wouldn't have thought of it. In fact, I don't think anyone else would either unless they were deeply entrenched in audio retail sales or marketing research.

I obtained that information becasue as I have expressed elsewhere on this thread and WHY I even came here is becasue I am selling all my analog gear and revamping my studio. When I get home in a couple months I will be putting a lot of gear on Ebay. Pre PaL is a good site to see how much certian pieces have gone for in the past so I can get a glimpse of my budget when replacing it.

Its not secret agent stuff. Anybody with a brain and savy in the Home Recording world can search for used gear prices on the net. Its also good to refute false claims made by "credible" people.
Im very proud of you in that you made excellent investments and ALL you gear made a profit for you before and after the sale...You are a business wiz. But others may not be as all knowing as you.

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It makes me wonder where you are coming from?That I do know is you are a coward that doesn't reveal who you really are, or what you do for a living that makes slanderous remarks behind a bullsh*t screen name. I looked at your profile ... no occupation listed, no location listed and the email goes to "kingfrog"@fullocrap.com or something like that. I think you are an industry schill. It wouldn't be the first time one came on to RO undercover to spread bullsh*t.

For the last time I am not in Audio Sales LOL. I am an live entertainer in a nationally known show and shows and my identity can easily be construed if I reveal more than that. I choose to remain anoymous for reasons that are of no consequence to those who read these boards. If I have any credibility at all it must come from my words not my identity. I am not here to gain credibility. I really do not need it...especially on an internet message board.
When I see information that is skewed or wrong IM MY OPINION and my experience I will challenge that information AND the poster's credibility as you are doing. Its only fair. Some will see another side some won't.

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I would lock the thread but the problem won't go away ... it has already spread to other threads. Perhaps if enough people complain to Bigtree, he will close out kingfrogs profile and block him from the site. But at this point, it needs to come from somewhere else other than myself or the other mods. It should come from the members.

frog wants me to lock the thread. He knows he has made a major ass of himself and he would like this all to fade away. The best way for that to happen is to force a mod to lock the thread. That way it can never be brought back to life months or years down the line. I have seen 3 year old threads resurface from time to time. One like this will surely haunt the site for quite a while. There's nothing that frog would like than to see better than for this thread locked and to disappear.

Bigtree is more than welcome to censor me if he chooses and delete all my posts so you can continue to mis inform on a Home Studio Buget gear thread.

I don't care if you lock the thread. Judging by you ego though I figured I would give you an out for the last word. If I have mad an azz of myself so be it. I responded to things I disagreed with and challenged the credibility of the posters who post those things as are you doing. YOu can keep the thread unlocked. Its funny that you think I care. I have a life that extends way way way beyond this little forum. Actully I would like to see ot open. Im enjoying reading the responses and responding in kind.

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The best thing to do is what you suggested, ignore him. I have suspicions that this guy is an industry schill / hack that has come to RO with an agenda to support the dealers and manufacturers of the low end. "Me-thinks the lady doth protesth too much." as Fletcher so aptly put it one time. My suggestion is for everyone to copy the link address of this thread and from now on when ever frog makes a bullsh*t post on RO, reply by posting the link and mentioning that this is what this guy is like. Let the whole world see what a jerk he is.

You are free to do just that. Again Iam not an industry shill. My defense is not the gear. I DO respect, applaud and appreciate the segment of the industry that provide inexpensive gear to those who want ot record their musc Its for those who have NO other choice and/ or another option. I really do believe the Home Studio market grew becasue of the inexpensive gear and that may have chewed into your business and you are bitter about it. I do believe If you had you way there would be NO buget gear available so you might still be in business. Thats my belief based on what I have read between the lines in your posts and argument.

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One thing I know for sure. RO is the most read site of its kind on the net. YThis is one thing kingfrog cannot take away from us. A look at our stats shows that most the time we now have over 100 people at any given moment reading ROs pages with over 8 million page views in the past year. The manufacturers are sitting up and taking a hard look at RO. To think they weren't would be naive. Do a Google search on just about any type of gear and see what comes up on the first ten results. Chances are you will find a link to an RO topic. This does not escape the attention of marketers, manufacturers and retail dealers...............................The industry hacks all want access to the base of consumers RO has assembled for them. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. My and others efforts are to keep RO reasonably free of these guys who come here to push crap gear, claming it's performance approaches that of the high end (which my opinion is, it doesn't) on the unsuspecting consumer.

Not to burst you bubble here but RO is FOR SALE. Anybody connected with the industry can buy this site and have the list of users here. If this were such a gold mine for them they would be bidding on it as we speak.

Open mouth change feet.

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kingfrog hides behind a bullsh*t screen name and won't post a real picture of himself. He has been very ambiguous about what he really does for a living. In one post / thread he says he's from Branson MO ... and in another post / thread he says Las Vegas. hmmmm... both places that have a high concentration of large sound companies and equipment dealers. In another post frog says he sold his buddy an Art pre. These are all little clues he is letting slip through without realizing it. As I said, the more he posts, the deeper the hole he has dug, gets. I am going to see what I can suss out on this guy. The more he posts, the deeper the hole he digs for himself gets. Every time he posts he leaves a clue on the trail. All is cool! K.

My identity has no relavance. Only the words. . I have explained my background and what I do. You are free to make the decision whether Im credible or not. If people do not believe what I say or can relate to it...so be it.

Yeah Sherlock Holmes......clues.........the things I "let slip" point to me being a salesman....Lets see I encourage those to record whatever their budget and argue vs those who think otherwise.....yep Im a Shill.............I sold a piece of gear to my sax player an ART MP pre amp I have said on many occasions was replaced by a MEEK...yeah thats it I work for ART or is it Meek!! Stick with fishing man detective work is not you forte.

Im a friggin enduser who has used and made profit from low and mid range gear for 30 years and support that segment of the market because in my early days it was THOSE companies that opened the door for me. I have sold product made with that gear and never felt the need or desire to pay 300% more for 10% more quality. I do believe this is really whats bugging you. You can make salable product with mid range gear and yes Studios will and are going out of business which PROVES the point. I somehow think you are a victim of that.......but thats just my own humble opinion.

You seem to want to censor thought that is in disagreement with your own and are very biased due to something you went through or whatever. I do not see people being discouraged as a good thing . Maybe it's just me. But it appears that way not just in my posts but the diatribe with Duardo and others as well. I have read a lot of your responses in this forum and I have NEVER read a forum where a moderator actually discouraged people from participating in the very nature of the thread he is "moderating" Someone is doing you a grand favor.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:25 pm

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*all the the above is personal opinion only......

What's with that? I guess frog knows he is slandering people and he want to cover his ass ....

Its simple...people forget that this only opinion and not fact........take a look in the mirror, Sherlock!

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The more this all goes on, the more I suspect this guy is here on some sort of mission to carry out a specific agenda.

My agenda is to encourge not discourage those who cannot or choose not to play for the elite gear. My purpose is to let them know from my standpoint they CAN make a very nice sounding CD with that gear. That does not make me a shill. It does apply to MANY more Home recordists than not though.

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frog wrote:
I am not going to defend my posts regarding Kurt.

Of course you won't. because you can't. Come on ... who the fu*% are you? Come out from behind that bullsh*t screenaname you use ... regeister with a real name and e mail addy .. What are you hiding or afraid of? (excuse me, I need to sneeze, chickensh*t! ... pardon me) Who are you really? I heve been registered here under the same name (real) for over 2 years now. Everyone knows who I am and what I have done.

I can and have. You NEED to have people know who you are. You Thrive on people knowing who you are and your "magnificent and worldly" accomplishments. Perhaps you enjoy celebrity. (Its not all its cracked up to be). Perhaps you feel you will have more credibility. I have no such need. If my words are not enough..I accept that.

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Of course frog only wants to argue with me because he knows I have a rep for getting into squabbles. When others post telling him he's an idiot, it's an indication that he's waaaay off base, which screws up his world.

You indeed have a rep for getting into squabbles as a moderator. Perhaps you need to look into that yourself. Sproll is not an example of credibility here in my eyes...and the others formulate thought and opinion I do not find offensive.

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frog, Where do you get off trying to tell people what to do here? You are not a moderator. You have no standing here. Quit trying to bully and shove people around. What a jerk!

I am not telling people WHAT to do. Im telling them They CAN do.
You on the other hand tell them what they CAN'T do. Big difference. And yes I would make a MUCH MUCH better moderator in a BUDGET GEAR forum than you. You are not very moderate LOL.

I do not post much in the PRO FORUM because I do not subscribe to the theory that you must have PRO gear to build a successful home studio as you do.

If that makes me a jerk......I humbly accept that moniker.

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:27 pm

chickensh*t! No name, no credibility.

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Im very proud of you in that you made excellent investments and ALL you gear made a profit for you before and after the sale...You are a business wiz. But others may not be as all knowing as you.

No secret it's not rocket science. Buy at half of retail (you can do this) .. or buy used. offer a good service and make money. When you're finished, sell the gear for the same amount or more than what you paid originally. This can be done as well because contrary to your assertions frog, real quality pro gear often appreciates, not the opposit. I'm not talking about Avalons or Manleys new stuff that is being pumped out at the factory every day ... but look at what a real LA2a sells for today vs 5 years ago ... The return is better than the stock market ... This is why there are so many vintage gear dealers. Thare's gold in them thar hills!

I started myself with cheap gear. I still use cheap gear from time to time. I use a 16 bit adat and a Yamaha MLA7 mic pre and Shure beta green 4.0 condenser and sm 57s to record my bands rehearsals. So don't say I tell people not to use cheap gear. Because I don't. I tell people that good stuff can be better and easier to get great sound from. I say quality counts. I say anyway to make your music better, quality or performance, do it.

Perhaps in your travels, you have access to people and numerous opprotunities to play your recordings and hopfully someday get some sort of deal. A lot of people don't have that luxury. They need to have it as good as possible if the chance should arise. The only way to be sure about this is to do the best work you possibly can with what you have. If you can swing a real mic pre, I think there is nothing else other than performance that can enhance your recordings and take them to the next level. Cheap out and you may be left to wonder ... "what if?"

Kurt Foster wrote:

Once again ... I never said that and your repeating the mantra endlessly in quotation marks will not make it so. If you're going to make comments on things I said, it would be better if they were actually things I said. Otherwise, you only make yourself look like a schmuck, especially when you don't even spell the words correctly.

frog wrote:

I posted a link to you comment and you tried to explaine it away earlier.

We will try once more ... You painted me as "a moderator who should do the same rather then insinuate those who buy budget gear should not be allowed to record or are people he would not want to associate himself with......"
... Which is something I never said. In spite of the fact I posted a reply to that effect, you keep revisiting the comment and twisting the words.

What I really said was;

Kurt Foster wrote:

Instead of looking at bringing down the bottom line, which in the end only short changes the client and yourself, look to ways to increase the value of the product and services you provide. Part of this for myself has been to be more selective about the clients I choose. I submit that perhaps someone who isn't will to bear the expense of quality recording, shouldn't be recording in the first place or at the least, is not someone I would want to be involved with.

I was speaking of clients for my recording studio ... my remarks had nothing to do with equipment at all, and you know that. Your continual return to that remark and attempts to further twist it into something else only shows you are willing to say anything to redeem yourself or to prove your feeble points... You admitted that you are a liar, you site at least 2 situations where you state "I should have lied" ... you twist others words into things they never said to further the advocation of using cheap gear. Why all the effort?

You try to make it look as if I am a gear snob .. and bitter. Not true. I still own and use some cheap gear ... midi verbs, quadra verb ... mackie and TEAC mixers, cheap pres and comps ... lots of cheap mics. My favorite new mic is the KEL HM1 ... under $100! I have been going to it quite often. But I still think that my U87 is a necessarry item too. So don't say I don't have or use budget gear cause that's not true.

I don't care so much that I don't have a studio anymore. To tell the truth, I was weary of dealing with know it all jerks such as yourself anyway. Things happen for a reason, I don't fight the river of life. I flow with it.

frog wrote:

I would make a MUCH MUCH better moderator in a BUDGET GEAR forum than you. You are not very moderate

That explains a lot ... listen, I didn't coin the term moderator and I don't subscribe to it. I look at myself as more a participant than a moderator. perhaps the better term for this type of position would be curator or sergeant at arms ..

Your remark though, finally shows where you're coming from as the new gun in town.
I could see you as a mod ... of a very boring forum where everyone sit around and congratulates each other on their latest $100 purchase and the rack crap manufacturers roam free ... Thanks, but no thanks.

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:52 am

Kurt Foster wrote:

I could see you as a mod ... of a very boring forum where everyone sit around and congratulates each other on their latest $100 purchase and the rack crap manufacturers roam free ... Thanks, but no thanks.

LOL - that's the best one I've heard all week Kurt!

You know, my whole standpoint on this subject is this. Cheap gear is not necessarily what I consider to be Budget gear. I consider Budget gear to be the "best bang for the buck", not the "cheapest thing you can buy on the rack". The point we are all trying to make is No, you don't need $1,500 pre-amps to record... but if you want to buy something that will really make a sonic difference in the way your mics sound, then buy this $350 Groove Tubes Brick. Why spend $100 on a Behringer pre-amp (which I have tried, along with a lot of other Behringer gear) when it does absolutely nothing to your sound? Why throw away that money? How does that make sense to you? Myself, I want to buy something that actually WORKS, but is not crazy expensive because I can't afford that. Not something that is designed so I can see the cheap Chinese tube in it and then put an LED behind it to "light up" the tube. Rolling Eyes

I have tried a lot of their gear, Mixers, Pre-amps, Monitors, Compresser/limiters, effects, and crossovers... and the only one I would consider using is their 3 way stereo crossover, and that is for live use not recording. And you know what, I'm not just anti-Behringer products... there is a lot of cheap junk out there from different companies that I avoid.

Bottom line - I don't have tons of cash, so I frequent this board and in particular this section because I want "The Best Bang for your Buck" gear. I don't want $100 useless crap. I'm not all about that. I'm not a 15 year old kid who is recording their punk band and wants to buy the cheapest possible gear. I enjoy what I do for my own band and maybe soon for others. I have been learning a lot on this board and from doing, and each of my recordings get better. I am a SMART consumer and I don't want to be throwing my money away on something that is slightly cheaper just because it is cheaper! I want good quality at lower prices. What you QueenToad cannot seem to understand is that we are in no way saying you need expensive gear otherwise you shouldn't be recording. No, we are not saying that. We are saying that this is a professional messageboard and not the Behringer messageboard... so if you ask for an opinion on budget gear you're going to get one from people who have used it, and have used the good gear so they know what to compare it to. We will do our best to point you in the right direction for lower priced products that still perform, so you in the end are NOT WASTING YOUR MONEY.

I myself think its a pretty good service and I am so happy that there are people on here to help me along the way. They are not here to cheat or lie to me. I have bought a $150 Studio Projects C1 mic, a used Delta 1010 card for $400, and a set of used Yamaha MSP-5's for around the same price all because they were recommended on this board and you know what, they work GREAT! They SMOKE most of the other budget gear I have tried, and guess what... they were cheap too.

So then... how do you respond to that? We want good, cheap, PERFORMING gear... and we as a group do not feel that certain Behringer products live up to these expectations. They are cheap, but they break easily and do not perform. How can you in your right mind recommend someone to go buy something when all they are doing is wasting their money on sub-par equipment. I would much rather wait another month or two, save up the money and buy something that works rather than buy something now that doesn't do anything to my audio quality and be out the money that I spent. The only reason I can think of for you to be recommending this gear is that you can't tell the difference between the quality of that and the good budget gear... and if that's the case, you shouldn't be posting your "highly informed" opinion on here to the rest of us. Instead you should sit down, shut up, and learn from the real pros.

End of my posting on this subject.

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:33 am

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So then... how do you respond to that? We want good, cheap, PERFORMING gear... and we as a group do not feel that certain Behringer products live up to these expectations. They are cheap, but they break easily and do not perform. How can you in your right mind recommend someone to go buy something when all they are doing is wasting their money on sub-par equipment. I would much rather wait another month or two, save up the money and buy something that works rather than buy something now that doesn't do anything to my audio quality and be out the money that I spent. The only reason I can think of for you to be recommending this gear is that you can't tell the difference between the quality of that and the good budget gear... and if that's the case, you shouldn't be posting your "highly informed" opinion on here to the rest of us. Instead you should sit down, shut up, and learn from the real pros.

How do I respond? Well I agree. I never once recommended and single piece of Behringer gear on this or any forum. But I would if it was all someone could afford regardless of what a "group" thinks.

What I have said is: you do not need "state of the Art" gear. That was construed as "well if you care for your art you will buy the best." I simply don't subscribe and I am an example of that. I can afford the "best." I am no longer a poor musician. But with the quality of today's budget mid priced gear being what it is. There is no need for someone to feel like they are hurting their art by passing on expensive gear.

If all a person can afford is a $100 pre amp I say buy it, learn it. and use it until they feel it no longer suits thier needs. Sell it for $75 and move on. Don't spend 3x as much because someone else says you have to or what you have is crap. Encourage ....don't discourage.

People will find their own comfort zone in gear and don't need to be made to feel they have wasted their money, or do not deserve to record because they cannot or choose not to buy soley on the recommendations of a total stranger on a message board. Never buy or pass up audio gear based on someone else's opinion. Audio is way too subjective.

A good example are those Yamaha monitors... I think they are terrible and would rather keep my Monitor Ones. Thats an opinion. No one should act on that until they hear them for themselves.

Reviews of gear are a joke to me unless the reviewer is actually measuring the stated specs for accuracy and can attest to reliabilty. One person's tranparent sheen is another persons mud.
Audio reviews that only describe the audio quality are like movie reviews.

I can tell the difference in high end gear but the differences as the prices go up are of the hair splitting variety and more about reliabilty which is not an issue in a home studio thats not running 24/7.

I do not care what you think or what the" group" thinks. I offer my opinion. People can take it or leave it. It's just and opinion. Like yours and everybody elses.

In 1979 when I lived in LA I had the pleasure of sitting in with an engineer at A+M records during a tracking session for Gino Vanelli . He listened to my songs recorded on a Teac 3340 and an SM57 and a Radio Shack Spring reverb. It was a terrible recording and I asked him how I could make it better. He was kind to say the least. But he gave me advice I never forgot.

"Do not chase the signal chain"

What he ment was once you start buying the state of the art gear you are stuck into buying it ALL along the signal chain from mic to monitor to room treatment, otherwise you are wasting your money. YOu cant have a U87 ART MP DBX compressor Mackie board, low end monitors, and an untreated acoustic space..

Unless you are willing to make a HUGE investment in everything in the signal chain you are better of stayng away form any of that gear. It made a lot of sense to me and I have been very carefu to keep my gear in perspective to each other.

When I read stuff here like you need a $1000 pre amp without asking what the other gear the person has I have to shout "FOUL".
If you want that pre amp you had better have ALL the best of the other gear in the signal chain or you are not getting the full benifit of your investment. I do not subscribe to the theory that a $100 mike is going to sound great through a $1000 pre amp followed by a $200 compressor. .

If someone is going to build the least expensive home studio with ART, Digitech or Behringer gear . So be it. I applaud them for making the leap into a world of endless learning and enjoyment.

I would never tell them they have crap just because I can afford a few steps up. Encourage...don't discourage. They will have all the gear at a very sweet price point to learn with and put their music on CD to share with others .

If they are happy thats all that matters. . But once they replace one link in the chain with a high quality piece they are commited to replacing ALL the pieces other wise they are wasting their money and not gettting the full benifit of their purchase.

If they grow out of it..... great. If not thats ok too. In either case the end result will still be FAR better then my first attempts using a 4 track recorder.

`

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 12:03 pm

I would be very interested in hearing some of your recordings kingfrog. How about sharing them by posting some in the Audio Projects forum?

kingfrog wrote:

If all a person can afford is a $100 pre amp I say buy it, learn it. and use it until they feel it no longer suits thier needs. Sell it for $75 and move on

Chances are that no ones going to buy that $100 pre for $75. More like $40 -$50 if you're lucky. Half of retail is the rule of thumb, right? THat's what you said earlier. .

kingfrog wrote:

People will find their own comfort zone in gear and don't need to be made to feel they have wasted their money, or do not deserve to record because they cannot or choose not to buy soley on the recommendations of a total stranger on a message board. Never buy or pass up audio gear based on someone else's opinion. Audio is way too subjective.

Again, no one said that anyone "didn't deserve to record". That is from you only. If someone says, "Wow! I could have had a real pre amp" that's more likely due to them listening to someone who thinks like you do, rather than anyone who advised them not to settle for less than the best they could do. There is not one time that someone has reported disappointment in the results after they followed that advice that I know of. Lots of times where people have said, I wish I had listened to you ...

kingfrog wrote:

I can tell the difference in high end gear but the differences as the prices go up are of the hair splitting variety and more about reliabilty which is not an issue in a home studio thats not running 24/7.

Actually, I think the home studio environment can be harder on gear. Often gear like mic pres aren't run through patch bays so the connections are plugged and unplugged almost on a daily basis. Connectors that are mounted to the PCB are likely to break or short sooner than those of nutted to the chassis. Pieces are handled more often in a home studio, sometimes not even rack mounted. IMO the home studio environment can be in some cases, much more challenging that the professional. As you point out the financially challenged can't afford to waste money. The best way to keep from visiting the repair shop every week is to buy quality gear in the first place. better build quality, better service, better warrenties. As far as sound quality, it's obvious to me that some people don't hear what others do ... but once again you are not the arbitrator of all that and neither am I. The best thing for everyone is to listen to opinions on both sides and once armed with that knowledge, go out and make a choice based on what they hear and see. But all opinions are valid input, even misguided ones.

kingfrog wrote:

I do not care what you think or what the" group" thinks. I offer my opinion. People can take it or leave it. It's just and opinion. Like yours and everybody elses.

Then why have you have spent the last few days enforcing your opinions on this and other threads? You seem to have a problem "leaving" other opinions ... The same can be said for me but I didn't just make that statement. Unlike you, it does matter to me what "the group" thinks. It's a battle every day for the "hearts and minds" of the community as far as I'm concerned.

kingfrog wrote:

I do not subscribe to the theory that a $100 mike is going to sound great through a $1000 pre amp followed by a $200 compressor.

This from someone who just said;

kingfrog wrote:

with the quality of today's budget mid priced gear being what it is. There is no need for someone to feel like they are hurting their art by passing on expensive gear.

You seem to not understand the basics. Mics have a very low output that must be boosted to line levels before they can be recorded or processed. Good mic pres do less damage in the amplification process than cheap ones do because they have decent power supplies that don't run out of headroom and crap out on the bass, phase and transients. Beyond that point to point wiring and or large PCB traces carry the signal through the device more efficiently. Better designs nut connectors to the cases so they don't break after a couple of years. Through the board hand construction as opposed to robot stuffed surface mount techniques are far simpler to repair and will be serviceable years after the unit has gone out of production and they can usually be repaired on site by a qualified tech.

Advances in mics from China have put decent mics in the hands of recordists. Design advances have made some inexpensive compressors that work surprisingly well considering their prices .. the FMR RNC is a good example. The Alesis comp when modified can work pretty well too .. but comps don't require the joules that a good mic pre does. IMO there is nothing that can improve the sound of a recording as much as a quality mic pre. Even cheap mics like the 57 will benefit from a great preamp.

kingfrog wrote:

If someone is going to build the least expensive home studio with ART, Digitech or Behringer gear . So be it. I applaud them for making the leap into a world of endless learning and enjoyment ..... I would never tell them they have crap just because I can afford a few steps up. Encourage...don't discourage. They will have all the gear at a very sweet price point to learn with and put their music on CD to share with others .... If they are happy thats all that matters.

No one will argue with that. I just don't think they should take themselves too seriously at that point.

Let me put it this way. I like NASCAR raceing. I can't afford a NASCAR racer though. What would you think about my getting a Geo to race with? It's all I can afford. If I take my Geo to Las Vegas, do you think they will let me on the track to race? Will I be able to compete? Or will the NASCAR officials "squash my dreams" and send me home? Was I an idiot for trying to enter the race with a Geo?

Rolling Eyes

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:12 pm

OK looking forward to it. I will not comment on them either. I just want to hear someting from you and let others do the same.

Thanks ... K.

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:44 pm

I placing a song on Nowhere and it should be available soon. This is a track I have had critiqued by those whom are succesful still and have some respect in the industy and it will be interesting to see what others heres say. I will reveal the comments I recieved after board members take their shots. Including you Kurt.

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:36 pm

Ok Song is in Audio Projects section

Take your shots....... Smile

This is a tune recorded and mixed in a spare 11x12' bedroom in my home on a Pentium III using an Aardvark L6 and all budget gear (including, Mackie mixer and Alesis Monitor Ones) with no room treatment except for window drapes...make your own judgements.......I can handle it.
Very Happy