help with acoustic guitars

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:23 am

dkelley wrote:

Guitar strings generally speaking sound better the thicker they are, but the thicker they are the harder they are to play. So it depends on what the guitarist is able to handle. Also depends on the guitar. Some guitars are so harsh and loud sounding that a thinner string is a good idea to soften it up a bit and thin it out.

I have to take issue with the "Guitar strings generally speaking sound better the thicker they are," statement. Although this statement is often repeated, it's too often not true to be considered a generality IMO.

For big dreadnaughts and jumbos (with stiff bracing and thick tops) that stress the fundamental of a note, and where a lot of volume desired, it may be generally true that "bigger is better," but I haven't found thicker strings effective on smaller bodied guitars used for fingerstyle. These guits have more delicate bracing than their larger brothers and, when combined with their smaller tops, these guits are very responsive to a softer touch and the use of finger dynamics. They also produce more complex and prominent overtones--as opposed to strong fundamentals. IMO these small-body guit attributes (responsiveness and complex overtones), which give them their beautiful tone, are diminished by thicker strings.

Also, many of the smaller bodied guits use cedar tops, and it's been my experience that thicker strings when played even a little to strong, over vibrate the top, causing distortion. As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if any manufacturer who produced high-quality smaller bodied guits recommended anything but lights for their guits.

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:48 pm

I agree with ShellTones. "Thicker generally sounds better" (or something of the like) is not true. I've played classical guitar (or, more technically speaking, Spanish flamenco - 1500's to 1800's) for over 12 years now and have found that it really depends on the guitar's bracing. On two of my nylon-stringed guitars, I use .013 -.56 and on the third I use .009 - .056 (obviously I buy individuals rather than packages). The third guitar was handmade and purchased with a (student) loan from a luthier in Spain.

However, my electric guitars don't vary as much. I get away with Ernie Ball Super Slinky's on my Stratocaster 7-string and Ernie Ball Power Slinky's on my early 50's Harmony (doesn't have a model name, and its also a 3/4 but has the ballsy-blues tone I was looking for at the moment and only cost $10 at the auction and hadn't been touched since Vietnam).

My steel-string acoustic is simple: Elixer Extra-Light Polyweb.

I generally have to play my nylon's for about two weeks (READ: real gut strings, not nylon), steel-string about 2 hours, and electrics about 15 minutes. Also, I find that taking two fingers (index and traffic for me, basically, whatever gets you about 2 inches) and stacking them on their side at the 12th fret while stringing until it gets too tight to bear does an awesome job of getting most of the play out of the strings so they stay in tune faster.

In the studio, have enough guitar strings to be changed every 4-6 hours of studio time. I know, the guitar isn't being played the whole time, but those extras are to account for broken strings.

Also, the reason a lot of people aim at the 12th fret or mic at the 12th fret and aim towards the soundhole is because those places where natural harmonics are so easy to play - 12th (one octave), 5 (two octaves), 7 (fifth above one octave) - is where many harmonics can be found occuring on open (or low fret) strings.

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:00 pm

sdelsolray wrote:

I would also disagree on the Oktavas. They cn do just fine for acoustic guitar, strummed, fingerstyle or lead. While there are certainly much better mics out there, the best thing the OP could do is lose that Samick guitar, Berry pre and those converters. Junk to junk to junk doesn't help the signal much.

ill get there... slowly... suggest a good guitar please.. not very expensive.. veratile and (hopefully)easily availble...

Sidhu

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:21 pm

I really like the sound of Seagull Etudes. I think they run about $450 US. They sound better than Taylor (IMHO) when strung with .010's. Buy some Fingerease (string, fretboard, neck lubricant) and lube her up real good. They tend to feel a little rough on the fretboard and finger oils tend to make the neck a little sticky. However, its the SOUND that counts!

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:42 pm

thanks Brian. The seagulls look very nice. I dont play guitar. But i want to perhaps buy one for my small setup. So that when ppl come into record guitars (they will not have any nice ones) i can atleast make myself a decent recording.

Seagull, of course does not have distributors in india.. anything decent that i can buy of samash online ? once i know i can start saving.

and thanks again for the time.

Sidhu

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:56 pm

Funny.. i cant find that model 'Etudes' anywhere on the seagull website.. google dint help

Sidhu

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:11 pm

Sidhu wrote:

sdelsolray wrote:

I would also disagree on the Oktavas. They cn do just fine for acoustic guitar, strummed, fingerstyle or lead. While there are certainly much better mics out there, the best thing the OP could do is lose that Samick guitar, Berry pre and those converters. Junk to junk to junk doesn't help the signal much.

ill get there... slowly... suggest a good guitar please.. not very expensive.. veratile and (hopefully)easily availble...

Sidhu

Larrivee -03 Series (great, great vaue - honest, quality sound)

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:24 pm

thank yu. Im looking at the Larrivee guitars now. They are expensive though...

sidhu

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:48 pm

http://www.seagullguitars.com/products6.htm

The S6 is the same thing. My bad.

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:02 pm

Sidhu wrote:

thank yu. Im looking at the Larrivee guitars now. They are expensive though...

sidhu

The Larrivee Parlors (for fingerstyle) have a beautiful sound. Also, you may be able to find some 01 models that are affordable. They are not fancy, but they are made from solid wood.

I've heard people sing thepraises of the Carvin Cobalt series, but I have never played one.

Anything made by Lasido (Seagull, La Patrie, Simon & Patrick) is a bargain for the quality you get.

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:16 am

Sidhu wrote:

thank yu. Im looking at the Larrivee guitars now. They are expensive though...

sidhu

Larrivee's are often discounted 33-40% off list. The -03 Series runs in the $700 to $900 range, discounted. That's not expensive for a quality guitar. It's cheap.

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:05 pm

thank you all for the help. if i get a decent job soon... here is my immediate list of purchases...

KM1 Pair
The Brick (maybe 2) or the M-audio DMP3 (budget and availability)
Seagull guitar

But acoustics first. Smile

wish me luck!

Sidhu

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:12 pm

i play, what i consider the nicest acosutic guitar in the world...haha
Rainsong OM1000

it's an all-graphite soundboard and neck with no body braces.

i have a two-man acoustic band, and my friend plays a Jean Larrivee, it sounds remarkable, but not close to as wonderful as my Rainsong. The resonance it delivers is insane. I stereo mic my guitar with an Mk012 in at the 12th fret, and a CAD Equitek e-200 at the bridge/soundhole...with a well isolated booth and a nice tube mic pre you'll have your guitar sounding great.

also, i noticed you said you were using Blockfish as a compressor...!?!
i would delete that little freeware plugin and never look back...as far as compression software, Waves (NI) makes a nice one, but i use Sonalksis most of the time, it's a hand, good quality compression vst.
(try this - ratio =3:1 Release = 2 to -5 secs. Attack = 20 to 50 ms.)

good luck

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:15 pm

ive found that one of the best mass produced accoustic guitars to record is a martin. they can be expencive if you need all the binding and inlay, but you can find them prety inexpencive with no inlay, minimal binding, and no electronics.

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:22 pm

Sidhu wrote:

thank you all for the help. if i get a decent job soon... here is my immediate list of purchases...

KM1 Pair
The Brick (maybe 2) or the M-audio DMP3 (budget and availability)
Seagull guitar

But acoustics first. Smile

wish me luck!

Sidhu

If it means that you can afford the Brick (over the DMP3) then i would wait on the pair of KM1s... the MC012s work just fine and you will get more of an increase in quality with the better pre.

cheers

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