FINALLY!! The saga begins

Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:57 am

Have not formally heard back from the county health dept... then again, I wasn't able to leave a message until Friday. (The day gig is killing me with silly stuff.)

I've located three "local" distributors for the Sani-Flo and the Sani-Pro toilets... I'm sure that they meet code here, but the question is whether the system can be the primary for a structure...

OK, now for something COMPLETELY different (from toilets, that is...) In other words, I've got another set of STUPID questions! Thumbs Up

If I go with an 8" concrete, steel rebar reinforced, pad (per room), what is the "optimum" distance between pad(s) and exterior concrete block walls, for isolation? My gut instinct is that the thickness of an expansion joint will be fine, but I've learned to ask instead of assume!

In a related story, Smile

, I am wondering about in-floor cable/electrical troughs... I would like to go this way as I "could" put the trough inbetween the pads and use the trough for the threasholds in the doorways between rooms.

Does anyone know of any sources for floor mounted wire troughs besides Walker? I've used Walker when in the medical industry, but I thought that there was at least a few more out there that were commercially available...

Thanx,
Max

Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:17 am

I don't quite see how Paul has done it... this IS insanity... unleashed.

No word back from the county STILL!

I'm planning on meeting with an electrician next week. I'm going to get him to calculate the existing electrical service usage in the house to see what capacity I've got left. I need to determine if there's enough excess capacity to run service to the studio. If there isn't, I'll have to get him to conttact the power company to schedule an additional service entrance connection.

I've managed to score 4 variac's for the lighting. 1 each for the control room and iso booth, and 2 for the main tracking room. The main passageway into the studio will just be on a switch.

I've kinda' revised the plans for the exterior surface. Rather than vinyl siding, I've really been looking at HardiePlank. It's a bit more work, but the added mass of the concrete fiber siding can't hurt.

Max (going mad)

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:19 pm

Just a small update.

Just got back from flying ot to Denver, picking up a van (on eBay) sight unseen and driving it back to NC with a Hammond RT3 w/Leslie 122!

I must indeed be insane!

The electrician is supposed to start getting the electrical roughed in sometime in the next two weeks.

Gotta call the county health department next week so see what the heck is going on with the new survey.

Happy New Year everyone!! I hope that 2006 will prove to be a more effective and producting year!

Max

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:20 am

Called the Health Dept again and left ANOTHER messsage Friday. Hopefully they'll call sometime in the next mellinia... There's only one certified geologist in the county, and there's lots of growth... guess he's just plain swamped.

The electrician is still trying to get out here to do the rough-in work. The three days he tried to get here, it rained and killed any outdoor work.

Max

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:27 pm

Sooo, Max, have we missed any questions or are you just keeping us in the loop? I'm serious, if we've missed helping let us know... Steve

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:07 pm

knightfly wrote:

Sooo, Max, have we missed any questions or are you just keeping us in the loop? I'm serious, if we've missed helping let us know... Steve

Steve,

I think I may have missed the boat... I was kinda' under the impression that this would be a build diary. I had asked if it would be appropriate way back and got no objections.

I'll take it elsewhere if it would be better not to clog the bandwidth.

My appologies to all.

Max

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:36 pm

No way, hose-A - just wanted to make sure WE weren't missing the boat. Absolutely NO objection to diaries, everybody learns something... Steve

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:51 pm

In that case...

Just a loop(y) update. Shocked

Max

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:27 pm

Met with the eletrician this evening!!! YEAH! He'll be putting the temp service pole in by week after next. Calling the power co Monday morning to arrange for service. FINALLY!! SOME progress! ADT!

In soffit construction, would I benefit at all by "splaying" the soffit wall in that wall's vertical plane?

In other words, if the wall is thicker at the bottom (by 30 degrees) up to the bottom of the speaker? Or should the wall be vertically plumb? - AND - conversely, should the wall splay outward from the top of the speaker to the ceiling?

Thanx,
Max

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:28 pm

A soffit's main purpose is to extend the speaker's baffle, forcing the woofer to radiate in half-space mode (only forward) - because of that, the "baffle extension", or flat front plate, needs to be exactly in the same plane as the woofer and roughly 3 woofer diameters in any direction from the center of the woofer cone; I don't have exact formulae for this, it's a wavelength thing; but if you make soffits that are "concave" in any way, it causes a degree of "horn effect" (focussing) which can reduce the size of the "sweet spot" so it's NOT recommended.

In addition, if you tilt the ENTIRE speaker/soffit assembly it can cause OTHER problems - for example, speakers (good ones, anyway) are designed so that the front baffle should be exactly perpendicular to the direct path to your ears; in this position, the drivers have been optimally placed for proper phase relationship near the crossover frequency. (This is an area I still am weak on, some claim it's not even detectable) -

Still, if you adhere to this plan then speaker walls need to be perpendicular to the sound path to your ears. So if speakers are placed at the same height as ears, then walls need to be plumb. Of course, you could place speakers higher and aim them downward, but this introduces MORE problems and IMO should be avoided if possible -

One of the main problems of high-placed speakers is the likelihood of more early reflections off desk surfaces, bridge surfaces, etc - another is the uneven response of the human ear at higher frequencies due to the pinnae (your outer ear) - as sound path comes from higher and higher locations relative to a path that's perpendicular to your face, the pinnae reduces high frequency response so you can't get a reliable reference as to treble content of a source. This of course will cause errors in judgement while mixing...

Add to all that the fact that nearly everything in the studio will be in the way of a clear acoustic path to your ears, and you can't win Crying or Very sad

- one of the main reasons we always see NS-10's laid FLAT on a monitor bridge is so they're not in the way of the mains - another reason is too many "eye candy" pix of studios as opposed to pix as the room is actually being USED. (2-way speakers should be placed so tweet and woof are VERTICAL - your head can move much more easily from side to side during a mix, which (with horizontal placement will cause opposing phase changes between tweet and woof) but with drivers in a vertical array, phasing won't change with sideways movement so the sweet spot stays wider (and truer) -

Most of these principles are laid out in Newell's Recording Studio Design, which I highly recommend... Steve

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:40 pm

knightfly wrote:

A soffit's main purpose is to extend the speaker's baffle, forcing the woofer to radiate in half-space mode (only forward) - because of that, the "baffle extension", or flat front plate, needs to be exactly in the same plane as the woofer and roughly 3 woofer diameters in any direction from the center of the woofer cone; I don't have exact formulae for this, it's a wavelength thing; but if you make soffits that are "concave" in any way, it causes a degree of "horn effect" (focussing) which can reduce the size of the "sweet spot" so it's NOT recommended.
Steve

A concave surface (horn effect) will also screw up your frequency response.
The horn bundles sound from the driver and thus increases the on axis sound level bandlimited depending on shape and dimensions of the horn.

Bert

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:23 pm

Steve and Bert,

THANX for the clarification! In browsing around the web over the last few weeks, I've seen a few... repeat few, control rooms that are splayed at the ceiling and tapering down to the top of the soffit mounted speakers.

I read about, but no pix, of one studio that mentioned that there was "acoustic treatment" on the front wall which only allowed viewing into the tracking room as there was no place to sit in front of the console due to the shape of the wall.

I thought it rather odd as many of the classic Manzella and Berger designed (patterned) rooms are pretty well known for the classic sofa in front of the console sized control room. (although I'd suspect that it makes it a royal PITA to service a console)

Steve, I'll see if I can find a copy of Newell's book on Amazon.

One question that keeps knawing at me is whether I've allowed enough space between the CR and tracking room to do a proper job of soffit mounting.

Thanx again!
Max

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:02 pm

Found what I was referring to -

http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_Sizing.pdf

If you look on page 3, about halfway down, just below the simple formula - this is basically a mini-discussion on soffits for all intents and purposes - if you re-arrange that formula and divide 4560 by the lower Fo of your speakers, it will give you a TOTAL baffle width in inches - I did a few for reference

30 hZ = 152"
35 hZ = 130"
40 hZ = 114"
45 hZ = 101"
50 hZ = 91"
55 hZ = 83"
60 hZ = 76"

So you can see that if you had some 15" bass drivers and wanted proper soffits they'd need to be about 5-6 feet each side of the speaker for true 2 pi operation. Kinda makes ya wonder if offcenter in the middle of the ceiling would be a good spot for the sub, huh??!? Confused

At least the baffle would be big enough... Steve

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:34 am

knightfly wrote:

Kinda makes ya wonder if offcenter in the middle of the ceiling would be a good spot for the sub, huh??!? Confused

At least the baffle would be big enough... Steve

OK, I'll bite... Why not?

If I were to go 2x6 for the ceiling joists in the region of the sub and put an access panel somewhere in the control room ceiling. Front mount the driver...

Whatdayathink?

Max

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:56 pm

knightfly wrote:

....
.....Of course, you could place speakers higher and aim them downward, but this introduces MORE problems and IMO should be avoided if possible -

One of the main problems of high-placed speakers is the likelihood of more early reflections off desk surfaces, bridge surfaces, etc -

???? This depends entirely on the individual room setup.

Placing speakers higher and tilting downwards can help reduce desk reflections in some cases.

Quote:

another is the uneven response of the human ear at higher frequencies due to the pinnae (your outer ear) - as sound path comes from higher and higher locations relative to a path that's perpendicular to your face, the pinnae reduces high frequency response so you can't get a reliable reference as to treble content of a source. This of course will cause errors in judgement while mixing...

well you simply tilt your head upwards slightly while listening. Which also has the benefit of you not looking at the computer monitor while listening and being distracted by the GUI. This makes a good difference in practise.

Quote:

Add to all that the fact that nearly everything in the studio will be in the way of a clear acoustic path to your ears, and you can't win ....... Steve

?? I actually had my soffit speakers raised up higher and tilted specifically to avoid studio equipment obsucring the monitors and the resulting diffraction.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend having the soffit mounts higher and tiliting the soffit wall so the speakers aim at your ears.

It worked great for me.

You should geometrically draw everything out, and use tilting as a solution if you need it.

Of course if you don't need to tilt them, then fine, don't Smile

but it won't hurt if you do.

Paul

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