HAR-BAL harmonic balancer eq

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 5:06 pm

hey guys what do u think if this? is this any good??? has anyone tried using this before? http://www.har-bal.com/

Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:09 pm

Oh sure, I've been using Har-Bal for years! Unfortunately it does seem to make my kitty toss those things up more often?

Automatic equalizers are like automatic microphone mixers. They are there for people that do not know how to make good recordings. The basic reason why you are now here is to learn how to make good recordings and so you won't have any Har-Bal problems with your kitty.

Blechhhhhh Cak Cak wretch
oh no!

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1881 Location: NYC

I haven't tried it. If you are learning, it might be interesting to see what it thinks is good.

Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:50 pm

Not to rock the boat, I have noticed some surprising improvements in many mixes. Doesn't work on every one, but it does do the job on most of them. What I notice in tough mixes is that it brings out the sound of everything in the mix and cleans it up.

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:36 pm

"Automatic equalizers are like automatic microphone mixers. They are there for people that do not know how to make good recordings. The basic reason why you are now here is to learn how to make good recordings "

Shocked

wow, what a narrowminded, presumptuous thing to say.... coming from the moderator no-less.

1. Maybe not all of "us" are here to uh, "learn". Maybe we're here to just read for fun.

2. I hardly call Craig Anderton,who actaully uses har-bal " a person who doesn't know how to make good recordings." Incase you don't know who he is, I suggest you do a google search on him, read what he has to say, you might pickup a few tips.

3. Anyone who's been around and who knows anything about recording in general also know that the acoustic path to the Speakers VS the electronic signal path in the gear are NOT one in the same.

4. Even " Major" label recordings AREN'T "perfect". They suffer from EQ deficiencies as well, maybe not to the extreme of "home recordings, but the do infact suffer.( just load one into a spectral prog and you'll see) What may translate well on a fine set of highend speakers may not translate so well on a cheapboom box. The whole goal here is to make things work for the "realworld" as best as possible. Even the best ears in the biz cannnot dot all the I's and cross all the "T's". there's ALWAYS some compromise going on. That's a stone cold fact in recording.

I've read some of your posts here... I guess it's nice to call out how you need a cut here a boost there, or how the uh..."bass sounds too boomy or the guitars ratty. But in reality, even the best ears are flawed. Why? Your human, that's why. SO even the great Bob Katz for example.... isn't perfect.

My point?
I think spectral progs such as harbal and the like are VERY GOOD because it puts eyes on the mix, you can see as well as hear. Of course you cant "steal a EQ curve and make a turd better. ( Or even apply another curve to a good mix for that matter.")
No two mixes are alike, or share same decisions made for that matter.

But you can atleast see where the mix is lacking, say in a Freq range your speakers might be lying to you at. ( even the best speakers money can buy lack too, you're fooling yourself if you think otherwise. See: acoustic path Vs signal path)

Who knows lady, maybe you have an ok ear, but you don't have a "perfect ear". IE: not are truthful as spectral analysis. These readings come straight from the electral signal path. they don't lie. Yes, you cannot "mix by numbers" but you sure get into the ballpark much quicker.

" there's no such thing as a bad recording, taste & ears vary"

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:53 pm

What one person might call an "EQ deficiency," another person might call "the natural tone of the recorded instrument/voice" or "a sonic decision based on artistic whim." Or is Har-Bal the name of a wizard who judges and regulates the correctness of our opinions and tastes?
Must be a very smart wizard indeed....but is he to be fully trusted?

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:08 pm

"wow, what a narrowminded, presumptuous thing to say.... coming from the moderator no-less."

Well thank you Mranalog for those kind and relatively pompous opinions. Perhaps this is just some fun bathroom toilet reading for your self?? But it's education for other people of less experience.

Many pieces of software these days have built-in spectral analyzers. With one looking at a spectrum analyzer one can " tweak" their equalizer's for a flatter looking spectrum. You don't need no stinking standalone program to do that. Your software may even contain multi-band dynamics processing which tries to do an automatic equalization thingy based on the level of spectral content in several frequencies bands.

I know all about Craig Anderton and have been following him throughout the years. We are contemporaries. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn what he uses. He is not the be all end all expert. He is no more knowledgeable than I am and please, DON'T YOU FORGET THAT.

Of course the acoustic path and the electronic path may be different but they are related. You take out the acoustic equation when you use headphones but then all headphones sound different from each other as well. Your perceptions of the " Major" labels not being perfect? Well DUH! So basically what you are saying is everything should sound the way you think it should sound? Well you are wrong! The only thing that is deficient here is your perceptions. Why? Because you are an inhuman audio guy, a computer methinks?

This "Lady" has more than an OK ear, my hearing is as good as any spectral analysis program! I don't need no stinking ballpark to get me closer to a good mix then you must be capable of?

At least you and I agree on one fact that there's no such thing as a bad recording (even if there are plenty of them in all reality) just variables in what people perceive as being good.

Now it's time for you to go take out the trash.
Ms. Remy Analog David

Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 10:04 pm

There are so many things wrong with this concept - using software to magicially "FIX" or Master EQ on something subjective alone, I don't know where to begin. (And if YOU reading this dont' get it, I can't help you, either....)

Sure, it looks like a great tool to visually inspect a recording's EQ curve, make some adjustments on the fly, etc. But the end result will be "Different", not necessarily better or worse. It reminds me of guys who used to play with graphic equalizers back in the 70s with their 8track tapes, making everything sound "Better" afterwards. (if you say so, kiddo....)

If you're naive enough to think that dialing in the EQ curve of your favorite thrasher CD and convoluting it with your own record is going to let you make YOUR recording sound better, then I can't help you either. You're missing so many of the fundamental concepts of randomness in recording, coupled with the millions of variables that go into each unique recording of sound, it's almost laughable. Sorry kids, it just does NOT work that way.....

As PT Barnun said: there's one born every minute. I know Craig Anderton, and I have always appreciated his work. (He's a homeboy from this area, as well. Go and google "Mandrake Memorial" for a little history lesson. ( http://www.classicwebs.com/mandrake.htm ) Craig's a great guy, and knows his stuff. He's practically a force of nature in this biz, without question. But he needs bucks like anyone else, and I don't see the big deal that a quote from him (probably pulled from a paid review) is used in their ad. It doesn't convince ME to run out and buy it. Nope.

And saying it's great because Craig likes it is, well, just pathetic.

Kids. Whatareyagonna do. Rolling Eyes

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:31 am

Not to mention that many folks that don't know what they are listening to are try to use a frequency-domain tool to solve problems that may be time-domain issues. Just because you can change the spectral content doesn't necessarily make it better.

Now, I've heard a few folks that I trust say the Har Bal is a pretty cool tool and is a good start point. however, I have yet to hear anybody give it the props that the marketing material makes it seem to deserve...

There is a similar tool in Sequoia and it is fun, but in the end, I find it to be of very limited use in the end.

--Ben

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:04 am

I'm actually proud to be "dissed" - by name - somewhere on HairBall's site or their forum or something...

I actually took advantage of the "30 day no questions asked" refund.

After an awful lot of questions - And fine explanations if I say so myself, I went for the refund. Worthless as teats on a bull for what it was designed for.

THAT BEING SAID - It isn't the worst sounding EQ I've ever heard. But it certainly doesn't compete with what I'm using already. *IF* it was a VST plug, I probably would've kept it around. But for a stand-alone? Not a chance.

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:37 am

John, I'll bet that big ol' lump of grey matter between your ears does a MUCH better job of picking out the "Good" frequencies vs. the "Bad" ones, and making it all come together as one coherent master.

I'm no luddite, and I'm certainly not anti-computer. I use them all day long for the work I do. But some "magic eq" fix just isn't the answer either. The "Magic EQ" is based on the assumption that there is always going to be some mathematical, predictable profile or algorithmn that needs to be changed "for the better"; as if there's a profile that can be read by this thing, and adjusted to sound "Better."

Again, I say it will indeed sound different - brighter, duller, squakier, mellower, smoother, whatever you dail in. But in the end, it's your brain and your ears, coupled with a great monitoring system that will tell you what's correct or not.

If it was as easy as just a few mouse clicks, then what are we all doing HERE, anyway?

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1881 Location: NYC

While hairball isn't a tool that I use, I can see that it would be useful for someone that is getting started. maybe more of a learning tool. But let's keep it clean here.

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:18 pm

first off "lady": Shocked

Calm down, don't get your blood pressure up, It's all O's & 1's here. All in good fun, don't have a stroke!

let's do a Remy Rad reality check here shall we? Laughing

1. where are your published books on the subject of recording? I would love to see them.

2. you procliam to have these" great golden ears", what label do you currently work for? I'd love to see your references and hear some of your work.

3. someone what such a "gift" is merely wasting talent lingering around here as a forum MOD. Have you thought about a "career move"? Maybe one that pays for a change?

Yes, it's the truth "laDy".... I find 99% percent of what yer posting around this fourm to be VERY useful when I'm sitting on the commode with my old laptop. ( prunes would probably less painful...) Outside of that, I really could do without your very weak attempts at uh...."humor". which I seem to stumble upon ALOT in the threads I read. Ah, the pun on words... " har-bal/[b]hairballl"[/b] the belittling remarks you make to others about they're gear and recordings they post.

Oh... let us not forget the all the "slapstick, side splitting uh... humor". It's the kind of humor that takes one back to the Vaudeville dayz of the 1920's. Confused

Yer showing yer age.

Laurel and hardy would be proud. Hey, if the music biz doesn't "pan" out (no pun) you can alway knock em' dead with your uh... "stand up". I know, I know, you're trying to show peeps a good time here and trying to look cute, but you're NOT.... in more ways than one I might add. Ooh.... Let me try some humor like the lady does: One could say, yer face is so ugly lady, you need to cut it off and grow a scab. It would be an improvement.)

at anyrate, spec progs such as harbal are good, regardless of how 'golden" your ear is. this is the reason why Craig is making a killing and your not. " I believe they call that "being openminded".

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:29 pm

Update:

I'm laughing my a$$ off over here. Remy is suppose to be "in the same league" with craig and the like, you know... the ones who make money and are world reknowned.....yea right..... just throw the amazing remy rad in a google search... You'll find that Ms. Rad runs a hack mobile recording service and lives at home recording forums online. wow.... Oh boy, what a life! geez, I think I will use the Neuman 87 as a fake dink...seeing how I don't like the sound....

The inside of the recording truck looks like something out of the beverly hillibillies. She proclaims to have over 30 years in, by the looks of the pic, looks like she hasn't showered in that length of time as well. yuck! Now I see why yer pissed off with life lady.

I wonder what other " non-showering-pros" are here? recording.org what a joke!

Thanks to a selct few: I've learn my lesson here today.... I would like to share what I've learned: Stay the h@ll out of forums. I've come to learn that forums are chuck full of know it all a*** with nothing better to do execpt let everyone know how great & ALL KNOWING they are. It's funny because you "pro -recording asses" secretly think you're the best of the best and youre' the only one here that knows what yer talking about.( that includes you're peers) A bunch of self -asborbed a******* is what you really are. the only ones here that even thank anyone for the "advice" are the noobs"... to me that speaks volumes upon itself. you "pro a****" can't be taught anything.....

I've also come to realize that these " so called pros" get off on helping "other noobs" for an ego boost because in the real world they don't have a life. So It's time to play Mr & Mrs recording overlord....

seeya A****!

(next time can you please catch all of you cuss words. less work on my part. MOD)

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:54 pm

I love it when dips*** get on here with 3 or 4 posts and start telling pro's what they should and shouldn't say. I also love when the newbs press people's buttons then proceed to tell them to calm down. Mr. A***, you're a d*** and pretty pathetic, especially to bash someones physical appearance. I mean most of us aren't really lookers in this business so I'm not sure how that makes one bit of difference to Remy's talents. She's classy, you aren't, end of story. Oh and it will truly be joyous if you f*** off and never return.

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