HAR-BAL harmonic balancer eq

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:07 pm

such pathetic stuff, indeed.

Actually, I think we've been lucky. This sort of stuff used to happen more in the "bad old days" of internet forums. Ya don't see it all that often, but occasionally, it does rear it's pointed little head here from time to time. The morons show up with no profile or other info, cause a stir, leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth, and dissappear again after leaving a cloud of noxious GAS behind.

Glad MrAnal is gone, indeed. Just trying to imagine the mindset that creates that kind of spew....

I'd say pathetic, but I'd be repeating myself. Again.

(hey Remy, maybe you can share his email address with us, so we can give him some parting words, eh? Twisted Evil

)

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:01 pm

Thank you jonnyc for your kind words. While there may be many other people's that may be more professionally known and labeled successful, than myself, nonetheless I have had the pleasure of being employed as an audio engineer in numerous professional studios from NYC to Fort Lauderdale and a broadcaster from local stations in Baltimore to NBC TV and radio network in Washington DC. I have the distinction of having been employed strictly in professional audio throughout my over 35 years of working in the broadcasting and recording arts and sciences business.

One of the reasons why I have always had a particular fondness for rock-and-roll and other forms of popular music is because, it's like the lottery. You've got to play to win! I have heard plenty of dreck that has been successful and some very talented people but that never became famous. So you roll the dice and try again because you never know when Ed McMahon may walk up to your front door and tell you you have won a Grammy award!

I can understand other people's frustrations as well. Little does bozo boy realize that I was pointed here by technical wizard John Klett, a professional acquaintance and friend. This was also an important place for me to be during my convalescence after lifesaving brain surgery eight months ago. I have a lovely variable schedule and am quite the night owl and insomniac, so I sit and watch my cable television and eat my food while playing on the Internet after coming home from doing audio and/or video. And I like to share my knowledge with others and realize there is always more than one way to do something.

I believe preproduction is important prior to recording. Particularly before a live show. But don't get me wrong here, I love spontaneity, I love the glitches, it makes for greater excitement of live and in the studio productions. I believe in spontaneity because if things were always perfect, how did we end up with George Bush? I'm not sure what I'm trying to say? They say stuff happens and we got George. To make good recordings all you merely have to do is know the equipment that you are using, good or bad and how best to utilize the stuff. Many people here like myself are here to share our experiences with others. But I want everybody to be able to make solid and gratifying recordings, so I present my experience and flair. If you try things that I recommend, you'll get a good recording. If you try things that other people recommend, you will get a good recording. If you plug things in wrong and turn all the knobs the wrong direction from lack of knowledge and experience, you will get a bad recording. Life is really that simple, when it comes to recording.

Simply nonplussed
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:26 am

Where do these posters like mranalog come from and go to? They seem to be the proverbial "troll" but why even start downgrading a person who freely shares her vast audio knowledge with every one here like RemyRAD? and then he puts Craig Anderton on a pedestal (maybe he has a shrine to him in his bedroom). Yes Craig is probably up there with people who's names are synonymous with audio but I bet he puts his pants on one leg at a time just like everyone else.

Any way I hope mranalog got his rocks off striking back for the freedom and justice for his way of life.

MTCW

Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:47 pm

IMHO, that guy is a PERFECT example of why it should be mandatory to register to post here with a working email address, a location (at least a hometown, I"m not talking about home addresses), and if applicable, a website.

Going further, I'd even support a private list (known only to the webmaster) with more important info (phone #, altertnate contact info, etc.) for private use when registering. (Not stuff that would be made public, but certainly stuff that would deter idiots like Anal from posting and scooting.)

Nobodies like him can show up, create problems and then just disappear into the wind.

They are the ultimate losers and cowards - total zeroes who make trouble by tearing up the hard work of others.

As much as I enjoy this place the maturity of 99% of the posters, I'd LOVE to see this place filter the last bits of that stuff outta here with a few simple additions for membership/registration.

Moderator Joined: Sep 12, 2002 Posts: 1867 Location: NYC

while this sounds like a good idea, implimenting it is another thing. But we can bring it up with Chris and see if he has any ideas.

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:50 am

Now I know that this little flame war happened some time ago, but I'd like to get back to the topic.

One doesn't have to use Harbal to 'rip' eq curves. In fact, this is one of the least sucessful ways to use the programme. Personally, I use (and rather like) this programme as a quick check on the average/peak spectrum and a quick nip/tuck on the bass end before sending out monitor mixes or demos for approval. It's bloody fast, easy to use and sounds surprisingly decent in combination with a quick 3-5 dB reduction of peaks using an external L2 or sometimes even the internal limiter.

I have recommended this app to several people to check (not to actually burn) files before sending off to our mastering engineer as I find the metering and subsequent 'toe-in-the-water' changes clear and easy. Using the interface, I can show them where their monitors are cheating them - mainly of headroom due to sub-bass and overenthusiastic use of bass. We use it in this way to get people to remix based on what they have learned and to see what good, reference mixes look like and I think some of the home recorded work that comes in has improved as a result.

The whole approach of this app appears to me to be one of education, home mastering and a quick job that does not require the full process of a paid mastering engineer. The fact that it can display instruments in their respective frequency areas points towards this.

When Bob Katz can bring himself to write a quick tutorial on the TC Finalizer I think that what we can lose track of here sometimes is horses for courses.

In fact, I have heard our mastering guy do a couple of quite decent jobs when he came to our studio. At first he was horrified (and not just about Harbal) but on the condition I did not let anyone know who he was and what he did he is now comfortable using this app as a pointer to what he can do on the occasional job - not in his room, of course!

regards,

John

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 10:25 am

as John pointed out earlier, there are plenty of vst spectrum analyzers, so why go with a standalone when you dont have to?

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:40 am

Good points, both John and saemskin.... Which really does make the case for visual inspection of any work in question. I've got no arguments there. I think what pushed the hot-button for most of us was the idea of automated "fixing' of a final mix, (esp the convolution idea).

From what I saw in the demo, it seems like another way of looking at the overall waveform curve/profile, and that's indeed cool. Samp/Sequoia has an FFT view screen that's a little like that (both static and real-time), and if you spend a few more bucks, there's the Algorithmix reNOVAtor, which continues to amaze me every time I work with it. Its work-window is a spectral viewer/display, so there's left-to-right time domain, then top to bottom frequency display, and finally the colors tell you the real story: cool blue to green for the lowest levels, getting warmer through orange/red to red/yellow to white to show the loudest levels. Even if you're not using the app to make changes, you can at least see - at a glance - where the hotspots are.

Any of these tools that help do a specific task with greater ease and accuracy are wonderful. Just don't ask me to believe it can replace the impossible to define taste and talent of a good mastering engineer.

Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:30 pm

I've come to the conclusion that a spectrum analyzer is like a midi controller. They all do pretty much the same thing, and one tends to like the one they are used to.
I have a favorite, and am used to that one. Everything else I seem to dislike simply because I dont "know" them.

*shrug*

Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 5:02 pm

Hello!
Wow, these posts get violent.......

Here is my .02 cents. The Harmonic Balancer came up in a discussion while I was mixing an acoustic record that just got finished a few weeks back. And to keep the violence out of it:

I can see how the Har-Bal can get you in the ballpark especially if you want to try to copy another spectral imprint. In using it, I however found that it did not sound good or "right" to me. I got much better results using my ears and a Good Ol EQ unit. On a side note, there are very few digital EQ's that sound "good" to me and this was not one of the good sounding ones.
It is my belief that most people would be better off, especially sonically, by spending their money a good EQ plug-in or analog EQ, listening to their favorite CD's, and spending an hour playing around with the EQ.

If you need a spectrogram or FFT to look at, there are many programs out there that have em .02 ya'all!

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:55 pm

I just noticed the Firium EQ is no longer made! I was going to buy one. So now that Steinberg doesn't make their product anymore, or elemental audio, is HarBal the closest replacement? Any other software or plugins to do eq morphing to another source?

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:27 am

cymbals wrote:

I just noticed the Firium EQ is no longer made! I was going to buy one. So now that Steinberg doesn't make their product anymore, or elemental audio, is Herbal the closest replacement? Any other software or plug ins to do eq morphing to another source?

It is being made but has been bought out by Roger Nichols

http://www.rogernicholsdigital.com/ who increased the price substantially and gave them all "cute names"

Here is the email they sent me after I asked what happened

Thank you for writing to let us know how you feel. I understand your frustration with some of the changes that have taken place. Sudden change is often not well received, especially if you were happy with things as they were. We chose to enter into a relationship with Roger Nichols Digital because we believe that the relationship will ultimately result in improved products and greater availability, and because we believe it will help us to grow and improve as a company. Though some of our customers look negatively on this change, we continue to see this relationship as one with much positive potential and we are looking forward to producing many new audio products.

If you have any additional comments or questions, please let us know. We appreciate your feedback and we, of course, value your support.

------------------------------------
Sales & Customer Service
Elemental Audio Systems
http://www.elementalaudio.com

FWIW

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:30 am

So is it now UniquEQ? I'm going to sound dumb, but I looked, and wasn't sure which one it was now.

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:05 pm

I don't know you, but where I come from, forums are placed online only to gossip and criticize, nothing educational, nothing useful ever comes out of them. At least here I have expert and objective opinions about my work and every bit of advice helps me do a better job, it's truly sad to see how a**** like yourself don't appreciate that. I think Remy has given harsh posts sometimes but hey, I think most teachers in the best music and audio schools should be like that, you learn more after your work has been harshly critiqued. Also, I think most of this post is based on something that is actually subjective, it's like the ever lasting trigger vs acoustic drum sound war, everybody is entitled to their own opinions. But hey Remy, no offense, but allow me to be a bit doubtfull about those golden ears of yours, I've heard that comment before on true suckers in the recording business and it always blows up in their faces. But in the end I totally respect and thank those pro's that even for ego matters or just for fun post in this forum to help others like me, whose life is totally inmersed in music and audio, and dream to be at a pro level one day.

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:51 am

Thank you Cosme. I feel very fortunate that I have been blessed with exceptional hearing, due in part to my professional musician parents. I was raised to listen to everything, carefully. My "Golden ear" status comes from being able to verbalize what I have heard and making changes translating to technical improvements for numerous recording studios and broadcast facilities throughout my professional career. However, I'm not one of those people that completely believes in pristine ultimate fidelity. That is to say, I believe in the practical application of any recording and equipment. I don't insist on the finest equipment. I believe in a "good enough" approach to recording and broadcast. It doesn't matter if you have the best equipment money can buy if the person on the other side of the glass has no talent. I think many of us have referred to that as "polishing turds"? LOL!

Many years ago, Yasha Heifitz was recorded using numerous violins of various quality. It didn't matter whether he was playing on a $1 million Stradavarius or a $25 plastic toy, the recordings that were made still sounded like Yasha Heifitz. I basically feel the same about most recording equipment. In the bygone times of audio, equipment choices were limited and so we all had to learn how to best utilize what we had to work with. We would all love to own Neve or API (I do) but if all you have is a $59 Beringer mixer and an $80 SM 57, there is no reason that you can't still make a beautiful recording. HIGH-DEFINITION HOOEY!

One thing that I do believe that is lacking is a good understanding of the equipment that one is using or purchasing. Not everyone wants to be a technician but you cannot drive a car unless you understand the rules of the road. It's important that you know where you're going. You don't have to understand how the engine works but you do need to check your oil from time to time and know how to do it. Many folks just want to learn how to "twiddle" knobs and dials and thus "recording schools" were born.

In an incredible happenstance and twist of events, over 25 years ago, I had an incredible fortunate opportunity to have a one-on-one interview with Sir George Martin in NYC! One of the main differences between American engineers and British engineers he told me, at that time, was that many American engineers only knew how to tweak the knobs and dials. They didn't even know how to solder an XLR connector to a cable. The technicians only had to fix the knobs and dials and they couldn't make recording to save their life. The British engineers, at least the ones that worked for Sir George Martin, were competent technicians first, before they became recording engineers for him. So I have always considered myself to be more of a "British style", practical engineer since I personally traveled that route.

I love to share my knowledge and experience with others that are interested and I apologize if some of my responses on Recording.org have occasionally seemed harsh. Generally I just get a little silly while whimsically musing over questions that are posted. No malice is intended. Just like when I was seeing my Shrink some 20 years ago, sometimes he would say things that would really get me angry. It would make me think. I would stew over it the entire week. The following week I would tell him that I finally figured things out because what he said got me angry. He would just laugh. That was his job. Sometimes I just try to make people think about the practical side of recording and what they are trying to do. As I have said in the past it all comes down to the directions to Carnegie Hall. Practice Practice Practice

"I've got blisters on my fingers"
Ms. Remy Ann David

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