Loud masters

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:08 pm

Sure, Cosme! I was certainly not implying you should always destroy the dynamics to get loud masters, I just said that I didn't mind radio stations compressing the music to make them more enjoyable listening in your car driving on the highway!

By the way Beethoven's 5th symphony would still be a great piece even when played without dynamics, just listen to some youth orchestra trying to play it: no dynamics, out of tune and out of time but the composition still stands strong! Smile

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:25 pm

Cosme, I don't really agree about your comments regarding what happens to the sound of the bass drum on " loud mixes". Many of us have used dynamics processing on bass drums, in our mixes. It adds a little more "meat" to the sound of the bass drum. It does not do what you describe to the sound. And to assume that, you are definitely " limiting" your potential as a good engineer.

Limiting the Unlimited
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:41 pm

Thanks Remy you don't know how good that makes me feel, actually I was reffering to limiting, It's just that I had a very good experience lately with an album I was recording, they're genre is Emo Punk, so at first they were asking for loud masters and kick drums that came out, that had attack and thump at the same time, so at first I made these loud masters, but it just didn't feel right and it hurt my ears so much because I was taking the master to -6, -7dB RMS, and these guys used 3 guitars that crunched constantly in every song. So I tried later to lower the limiting threshold, taking the masters up to -10, -11dB RMS, and the difference in the kick drum sound and the rest of the mix was amazing, it didn't crack when you turned it up,the drums in general were amazingly spaced and defined and the guitars still had a powerful sound, that's why I came with that conclusion. I'd like to hear your opinion about my work, it's linked here

http://www.rockdeaqui.com/Nueva.mp3

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:49 pm

Oh sorry I missunderstood something, I was actually reffering to limiting in the master stage, of course I used dynamic processing to the kick drum in the mixing stage, I was talking about the effect on the kick drum when you apply limiting in the mastering stage

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:55 am

Cosme, I think you are pulling my "no habla Espanol' " leg? That high-energy rock-and-roll cut was GREAT! Everything about it was first rate and fully professional. I'm not much into that kind of high-energy rock-and-roll alot but I thought that the demonic "death rattle" vocal near the end of the song was pretty darn cool! I thought your drums sound/mix was totally fine? And the mastering superb.

It doesn't sound to me that you recorded this in your basement with a cheap little mixer? It sounds like you did this in a fully professional studio, somewhere in the hills of Venezuela? Tell me more about your production process and tools?

I love galapeno' peppers
The spicy girl
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:07 am

I totally thought you were gonna hate it for some reason jejejejej, it really makes me feel great that a professional opinion about that album is a good one. Well you'll be surprised that the recording room where I made the drum tracking is actually the worst kind for drums, it's very small and almost totally anechoic and does not help the development of the cymbals at all, but I sort of managed to get the best out of my overheads. I used 3 Samson Q Snares in every tom, 1 Sm 57 on the top of the mapex piccollo drum, an AT4050 on the hh, an RE27 in the kick drum but (that doesn't count because I had to replace it with drumagog using a discrete drums sample because I didn't get the sound I wanted only with one mic) and my overheads were 2 Samson CO2 (I totally love these pen cardioid mics, the only cost about 120$ the pair but their performance is outstanding). The guitars were recorded with a Randall RG100 2x12 combo (gotta love Randall distortion), close micing with an SM57 and a bit distant axis micing with an RE27. The guitar was a Schecter i don't remember the model with Seimour Duncan pickups. The bass was a standard Jazz Bass in a yorkville 100W combo amp, recorded in axis wth de RE27 and also through Direct Box. Vocals were recorded with the AT4050. I preamped only the overheads in drums with a TL Audio dual valve compressor preamp. Everything else that was recorded with the RE27 and the vocals also were preamplified with this dude. The snare drum was compressed a bit with a symetrix digital compressor. I used a Mackie 24/8 mixing console, Nuendo 2 in a sucky PC (I wish I had a Mac), only waves plugins in the mix (also had to use the X-Crackle a bit because of some overload in the RE27 guitars), in mastering I used a C4 multiband, then R6 equalizer to tweak details a bit, then I used Steinberg's Loudness Maximizer (totally love it) to pump up the volume and that's about it, I'm glad you liked it, I was also wondering if you had an MSN email so we could chat , that'd be cool.

Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:22 am

Cosme, Not sure why you thought I would dislike what you did? You should have a higher opinion of your technical capabilities. I think your recording is a beautiful example of what one can do with decent but affordable equipment. I had purchased in the past a pair of large capsule Samson condenser microphones when they first came out, since they along with the MXL's were some of the first "U87" look-alikes and because they were only $60 each, I just had to find out how they sounded. I really didn't care for the sound much and gave them to a friend's rock-and-roll band. Everybody loves them on the lead singer and I've never really cared for them. C'est la vie It just shows to go you, you still have to know how to manipulate the equipment you have to its fullest capabilities and obviously, you have!

Keep that rock-and-roll a pumpin' down south, Way South
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:37 pm

i'm sorry but my masters sound better(and i'm only beginner:( )...just posted one in separate thread
Yes dums are a bit behind and a bit destroyed, but you wont hear it much on consumer speekers...
But overrally image is bigger and vox is on top of it.
and it also is more punchier. i have used Janette "Rock my life" as a reference and they get even louder there, but snare was completely smashed, mine is not completely:))) And their vox was amaizing how did the do that? Sad

((

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:12 pm

Vladlv, first of all, this is not a competition, I just ask for opinions about my work, wich I put my heart and soul in. I love to learn new things about people that know more than I do, I'm a begginer as well, I've only been recording about a year, that's my experience in the business, if you consider me anything else but a beginner, I feel flattered. I wanted to see what you meant with your post about your master being better than mine, and yes, the song is pretty cool and I really liked most of the final product. I do hear the drums a bit fake (is it an acoustic drumset? or did you replace most of your drum sounds), and I'm not totally convinced with the track editing (sloppy fades) and the placement of the vocals, they seem a bit out of the mix in my opinion. I also notice the difference in music styles, My master was a sort of californian punk rock while your's is pop rock, different mixes lead to different masters. Although I don't really like how loud your master is, I think it takes away a bit of dynamics, if it was a little lower it would be a whole lot better

Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:05 pm

Hi,
SN and BD are replaced it is very difficult to get competitive result with original but it is very important to have original OH and Room tracks in my oppinion.

Just because drummer hits only 5% times right:) and yousually most drummers dont hit with enough power and dont understand how drums will sound after compression. this makes SN befind and lost.

It is a Vocal High masster, i will try to make Vocal Down also.
i haven't listened on cheep spekers yet maybe i should consider lovering abit.

Regarding slopes, yes you are right:)
You dont like release times of snare there? Automation required:(
Yes it is what i also dont like:( i'm also consydering placing synth there. But i'm so lazy:)

Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:03 pm

well as long as the song is good and a nice video it has..played on tv again n again it will sell regardless of its quality or loudness... i never bought any cd in my whole life by listning to the louder levels all i do if i m watching MTV or channel V if I like the song then i goto the cd shop and i buy the cd.. though i m dealing with people who are crying for louder levels i just tell them once and show them the difference of bieng very loud, loud and a good level they still say louder then there you go... tata bye bye...cuz i gotta make money too guy but yeah when i m making tracks of my own I definitly don't follow the very loud rule...

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