schoeps omni caps

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:05 am

Hi !

I'm about to buy a schoeps omni stereo pair. I'm hesitating between MK 2S and MK 2H.
I'd like to be able to use it also in direct field.... MK 2H would be fine ?

thanx

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:27 am

I liked the MK2S better between the two , and tried them both out.

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:30 am

Why not get the MK2S and use EQ in the nearfield. It is always better in regard to noise to cut off, than to boost. By the way, Joerg Wuttke from Schoeps says, it is no problem to use high quality EQ to make the conversion between nearfield and farfield equalization as similar processes (equivalences of impedance and capacitance) are done mechanically when creating different response omni capsules. I use MK2S and like them but have only compared them to MK3 and Neumann KM83. One advantage of the MK2H is their higher sensitivity (15mV/pa compared to 12mV/pa of the MK2S which is about 2dB more, and their lower noise of 11dBA compared to 12dBA).
Regards
Hermann Platzer

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:10 am

thanks for your advices both of you !
I think I'll go for the 2S...

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:52 am

Well, it sounds like you've made your decision, but I'll weigh in and say that I too far prefer the sound of the 2S. Yes, they can be a tad bright (as can the 2H) but to me, it's a far more managable (via EQ or placement) than with other mics including the H.

J.

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:55 pm

Teddy and Jeremy,

What is it about the 2S that gives it the wood over the 2H, in your opinion. In another thread, someone described the 2S as more conducive to pop-vocal sound.

Dave

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:55 pm

Duckman wrote:

What is it about the 2S that gives it the wood over the 2H, in your opinion. In another thread, someone described the 2S as more conducive to pop-vocal sound.

As with any recording the mic choices are first dictated by the venue and the repertoire-- all other decisions come afterward.

That to say that given a specific concert, a MK2S might be better than a MK2-- it all depends. I had my 2H caps about 2 years before deciding they needed to be replaced by 2S. I frankly thought they were ideal in a very small percentage of situations.

I also agree with liuto's comment regarding "subtractive" EQ (and LPEQ will usually be preferable), althought the difference in sensitivity was never a factor in actual use.

Rich

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:41 am

Sonarerec wrote:

As with any recording the mic choices are first dictated by the venue and the repertoire-- all other decisions come afterward.

That to say that given a specific concert, a MK2S might be better than a MK2-- it all depends. I had my 2H caps about 2 years before deciding they needed to be replaced by 2S. I frankly thought they were ideal in a very small percentage of situations.
...
Rich

I totally agree that choice of mic is dictated by circumstance rather than going in with a fixed choice in mind. I work sometimes with a large mobile studio who normally record pop/rock music; they can't handle not knowing ahead of the show, exactly what mics I'll be using and where. I've tried pointing out that even though I obviously have an idea of how I'll tackle a given job before I get there, I won't decide upon the exact mic plot in a venue I don't know until I'm actually in there with the stage layout starting to take shape, and I could well make several changes over the course of the rehearsals/balance checks. It drives them mad as they're used to detailed technical riders from pop/rock shows where they're splitting from a known PA rig or close micing things so tightly that the acoustic is irrelevant.

Amusingly, I went the other way from Rich with my Schoeps capsule; I've had MK2 and MK2S capsules since about 1986/87 and I still have them but I bought the MK2H as soon as it came out and now use it at least as often as the 2S, perhaps more often. I hardly use the MK2 and will probably get rid of most of them or see if I can swap them for something more useful.

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:35 pm

well, yes, but hes talking about being able to afford only one pair,....so which pair would get the edge.. I liked the 2s because it works better at the distances I normally work with. sounds horrid up close, but farther away, the ticket! (for up close, the best mic ever created(omni) is the Gefell mk221)..but those are spendy! if I only could buy one schoeps pair..itd be the mk21..but if I had to use the mk2 or whatever , id find a way to make it work..thats my job. Thumbs Up

Sonarerec wrote:

Duckman wrote:

What is it about the 2S that gives it the wood over the 2H, in your opinion. In another thread, someone described the 2S as more conducive to pop-vocal sound.

As with any recording the mic choices are first dictated by the venue and the repertoire-- all other decisions come afterward.

That to say that given a specific concert, a MK2S might be better than a MK2-- it all depends. I had my 2H caps about 2 years before deciding they needed to be replaced by 2S. I frankly thought they were ideal in a very small percentage of situations.

I also agree with liuto's comment regarding "subtractive" EQ (and LPEQ will usually be preferable), althought the difference in sensitivity was never a factor in actual use.

Rich

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:03 pm

TeddyBullard wrote:

well, yes, but hes talking about being able to afford only one pair,....so which pair would get the edge.. I liked the 2s because it works better at the distances I normally work with. sounds horrid up close, but farther away, the ticket! (for up close, the best mic ever created(omni) is the Gefell mk221)..but those are spendy! if I only could buy one schoeps pair..itd be the mk21..but if I had to use the mk2 or whatever , id find a way to make it work..thats my job. Thumbs Up

The guy wants to mainly record a small choral group. He want one pair only. He is allergic to hiss.

Since he has eliminated the SF12 I reccomend the Schoeps with MK2 caps. if omni is not essential, the only other condensers I have liked in front of a choir are.... TLM193. Cousin of the TLM170 and U89, they will have a "rounded top" but also condenser transients.

I am not aware that MG mics can change capsules, thereby neccesitating a mic purchase if something different is wanted.

I think his main challenge is to avoid condenser "crunchiness" with choral sound-- which is NOT easy to do with condensers.

I am looking forward to hearing what he buys and if he still likes it after 6 months.

Rich

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:24 am

Well,looks like he decided on the AEA r88 + trp. Hope it works well for him. 21s would have been my first choice for choral work, but they are rather spendy. the AEA will not have a crunchiness problem, methinks.

Sonarerec wrote:

TeddyBullard wrote:

well, yes, but hes talking about being able to afford only one pair,....so which pair would get the edge.. I liked the 2s because it works better at the distances I normally work with. sounds horrid up close, but farther away, the ticket! (for up close, the best mic ever created(omni) is the Gefell mk221)..but those are spendy! if I only could buy one schoeps pair..itd be the mk21..but if I had to use the mk2 or whatever , id find a way to make it work..thats my job. Thumbs Up

The guy wants to mainly record a small choral group. He want one pair only. He is allergic to hiss.

Since he has eliminated the SF12 I reccomend the Schoeps with MK2 caps. if omni is not essential, the only other condensers I have liked in front of a choir are.... TLM193. Cousin of the TLM170 and U89, they will have a "rounded top" but also condenser transients.

I am not aware that MG mics can change capsules, thereby neccesitating a mic purchase if something different is wanted.

I think his main challenge is to avoid condenser "crunchiness" with choral sound-- which is NOT easy to do with condensers.

I am looking forward to hearing what he buys and if he still likes it after 6 months.

Rich

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 7:29 am

Hi out there.
You may think i'm mad... I finally bought... schoeps cardios !!!!!!!!

I'm now re-thinking about buying mk2S or mk 21. I almost only record in reverberant european churches (choirs+ baroque orchestras).
Would MK21 be more efficient as main pair than mk2S under these circumstances ?
Thank u so much !!!!!!¨

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:31 am

Hey willi!

For extra-reverberant churches, I almost always prefer a little directionality. If you go with omnis, you'll almost assuredly have to get super close to the musicians. You'll lose any sense of a stereo image and musicians in the back of the orchestra (horns, trumpets and even clarinets) will be lost in a sea of reverb.

I just did a recording in a MAJORLY reverberant church in downtown DC last night and I had to use 7 channels to get what I wanted.

An overhead cardioid/ORTF pair (Schoeps CMC6 MK4), Gefell M296 omni flanks (to pick up the lovely reverb), an MS pair of ribbons over the woodwinds as spots and a horn spot microphone.

If I erase any of these mics from the recording, it just doesn't sound natural. Just using the main cardioid pair, it's WAY too deep sounding (this is a chamber orchestra afterall). Obviously, just using the omnis, I get a wash of reverb (the omnis weren't much farther back than the main pair. The mains were about 7 feet behind the conductor and about 6'5 feet above the concertmaster's head. The omnis were maybe 12-14 feet back and roughly 12' in the air.)

While I LOVE the simplicity of both the setup and the sound of a minimally mic'ed ensemble, the acoustics have to be JUST right to pick up an orchestra with only 2 mics. An overly reverberant church is definitely NOT the right environment.

Cheers -

J.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:28 am

Hi Cucco !
Thanx for your quick reply !
In what church did the concert take place ? I went a few times in DC (I live in geneva, though) as friends of mine used to live there...

Ok, so i'll go on using my mk4 pair as main. I think i'll have to use at least one more st. pair in front of the choir. Would u use another cardio pair ?

Do u think using a mk21 pair as main could be more usefull than a cardio pair + 2 omnis ? Choirs here are often coupled with small ancient music ensembles (typically 4 violins, 2 violas, 1 or 2 cellos &/or viola da gamba, 2ble bass, 1 flute & oboe, harpsichord &/or organ).

Thaaaaanx ! Very Happy

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:15 am

No doubt that the 21 sounds wonderful. However, in a highly reverberant space, this pair as your only pair would have to be EXTREMELY carefully placed.

The church was the National City Christian Church. It has a glorious 7500 pipe Moeller organ and a 4.5 story sanctuary adorned in marble. It's quite lovely.

Two other recordings I'll likely be doing in that same church in the near future will be the Faure Requiem and a 6 hour Bach organ festival. I'm VERY excited about the organ Festival!

Cheers -

J.

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