minor chords attract teenagers - what else ?

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:51 am

moonbaby wrote:

Mr. Page played pedal steel on that tune, not slide guitar. A whole different ball of wax. And anyone who can sit down with an instrument and make it look or sound easy is pretty good in my book.

Do I have to dig out my copy of Houses of the Holy? I don't recall any pedal steel on "Over the Hills and Far Away." A lap steel of some variety maybe...

I'd have to listen to it again, but my memory's not placing any pedal steel.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:24 am

It was stated that "What Is and What Should Never Be"...which is off the LZII album- had a slide guitar on it. That's JP on a ShoBud pedal steel. He played lots of different styles and instruments, which is why he was a first-call session player well before the LZ days.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:58 pm

I'm not so sure about the minor tonality allussions, but I know that the "universal" sound of rock (not rock'n'roll, however) is the power chord. It's sound and use has changed over the decades but it expresses the anger/angst of youth. It's all about the power chord payoff - Baba O'Reilly & Won't Get Fooled Again (The Who), Stairway to Heaven (Led Zeppelin), Rooster (Alice in Chains), Wake Me Up (When September Ends) [Green Day], add your own to the list.

Odd time signatures are fun.

The Ocean - Led Zep - Alternating 8/8 & 7/8
Four Sticks - Led Zep - 5/8 verse, 6/8 other parts (Just for fun, he played with two sticks in each hand, hence the name of the song.)
The Wait - The Pretenders - 7/8
Tarkus - ELP - 10/8
Money - Pink Floyd - 7/8
Lonely Street - Kansas - 11/8, a few 13/8 and the occasional 7/8

Bach didn't use minor tonalities? Are you nuts? Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, and Passacalia in C Minor are just two of the dozens of pieces in minor keys.

A fun discussion...

.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:42 pm

UncleBob58 wrote:

Bach didn't use minor tonalities? Are you nuts? Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, and Passacalia in C Minor are just two of the dozens of pieces in minor keys..

Thank you! I thought all the pieces I learned were somehow wrong for a millisecond there.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:27 pm

An earlier poster stated that Bach didn't use minor tonalities, and I started to say...that didn't sound right at all.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:33 pm

i was going along with what that other douchebag said, although when i think of bach i think of minuet in G major.

on what is and what should never be i could have sworn that was regular slide guitar. but i don't know it wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't the case, same with over the hills.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:37 pm

aqualand666 wrote:

i was going along with what that other douchebag said, although when i think of bach i think of minuet in G major.

Uhhh...Aquafresh...seriously. Referring to folks as douchebags rather unprovoked, this is the kind of behavior you were warned about.

Besides, Demented was speaking (or typing) in a SARCASTIC manner. I would expect that you of all people would understand sarcasm.

PS -
Is that Klavier only well-tempered if major??

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:21 pm

Cucco wrote:

PS -
Is that Klavier only well-tempered if major??

I had to find out!!!

From http://www.jimloy.com/physics/scale.htm :

Well tempering:

Near the beginning of the 18th Century, "well tempering" became popular. This was a little more complicated, in a way. But, every key became usable. And there were no wolves. There were several "well tempering" tuning schemes. Essentially, all octaves were pure. Keys related to C had nearly pure major thirds and fifths. Keys distant from C had much less pure sounds, but were not too bad. And the sequence, from a pure C triad to the impure distant triads, was gradual.

None of the scales or chords sounded bad. In fact every major and minor key sounded different. C sounded placid and fairly uninteresting. The more distant keys sounded more interesting. You might call some keys harsh, or agitated, or tense. And so, music could be written to suit the mood (or color) of each key.

Bach wrote the Well-Tempered Klavier, 48 prelude and fugues, two in each of the 12 major and 12 minor keys.

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:31 pm

aqualand666 wrote:

beethoven did use minor tonalities. bach didn't..

well actually bach did as well... sorry i cant find my analysis book of all the chorales from theory 101 or i could give you just a couple of instances...

dont you find it incredebly hard to sound erudite whilst not knowing of what you speak???

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:47 pm

damn those are some cute ass little fun facts, didn't suspect the tuning of musical instruments to be embedded within the golden ratio/spiral as well!

how did pythagoreas do this, i thought fixed tuning instruments were barely around by the medieval period? quite interesting the mathematical representation of the tones. and the development of accidentals thereof. i'm sure you're aware that further solidification of accidentals were created out of avoidance for the tritone in gregorian church music.

cucco, when i ask questions its not like you just asked this one. you want to prove you know a thing or two about music theory? then reflect it on an instrument. too many big music theory buffs can express so little of what they know on their instrument that its not even funny. if this isn't descriptive of you then i am sorry. besides its not even as if the historical aspects of the development of music theory are any more than looking up a quick little fact sheet like this guy just did.

i thought you weren't about spec sheets? express these things on your instrument in a musically melodic fashion and discuss the psychoacoustics of the matter, hell you should be good at that. maybe just not so good at the reflective playing part? is that why you cling to institutions like music theory and engineering so tightly?

sorry about being wrong about what keys bach used. like i said i think of minuet in G and light and fluffy baroque music when i think of him, but yeah obviously he probably didn't play in strictly one manner. i'm not mr. joe classical man, and i'm sure as hell not trying to be. i can however play the 5th caprice by pagianini, i'll record it some time. actually the only classical things that i play are minuet in g, caprice, and dee - randy rhoads, that's about it, a few other licks here and there. it's not that i can't though. what do you play?

i would say that the beatles - black bird, and dee are both direct allusions to bach. and i believe they are both major and in the key of G. go figure.

p.s. Li Jie kicks ass

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:15 am

Quote:

I've been told that teenagers seem to like songs with minor chords.

Personally I've been told a lot of things, when I was a teenager I was told that there were UFOs and big foot still stomped in the northwest. Kid's also like candy, sex, drugs, rock, roll, tatooes, body piercing, you name it, basically they have a perpensity for anything in bad taste. That's why they are kids, it comes with the territory. And ah, I don't make this stuff up, it's just the rules of the universe, if you want proof just wait a couple years you get all you need.
Anyway, whether kids like minor or major chords is a moot point, the real question you should be asking yourselfs is....."why am I thinking about this, and why don't I have better things in life to contemplate?"....and now my son, "go forth and mulitply" is not the edvice you should be concerned with or heeding at this point in your life until you have gotten' past this current minor issue, ah no poun intended !

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:15 am

Joe:

You shouldn't bite the hand that provides your forum. I think the topic's intent was to promote conversation. Which it has.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:27 pm

liquid dude... perhaps it's time to move outta mom's basement ... get a job... and save the world while you still know everything.... you see most of us have discovered long ago that the older you get the more you dont know... and the godd questions only beget more questions... grow the fuck up !!!

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:38 pm

aqualand666 wrote:

i can however play the 5th caprice by pagianini, i'll record it some time.

Dude! That would be truly impressive. I personally would love to hear that and since it is only one piece, I think it would be fitting that you post it. You don't even have to do the whole thing. If you could cover the first two minutes, that would be more than impressive. It seems you have the gear to record it but even if it's not set up, a webcam version would do. We don't need to see your face. Youtube would work. I've bookmarked the search for Paganini 5th caprice. Just say when.

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:25 pm

uh hueseph, played at the proper speed, i don't even think the whole fifth caprice amounts to two minutes.

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