ONE rackspace 8 channel mic pre?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:58 pm

Folks-

I am giving myself a Christmas gift rather than sending the $$ to Uncle Sam in April. I can really use a good/ great 8 channel mic pre to augment what I bring onsite currently. I only have room for one rackspace, though.

Current contenders are the True Systems Precision 8 or (really!!) the Mackie Onyx-800R*. There is a German maunfacturer who makes an 8 ch 1 space unit, but I have forgotten the name. Can anyone help with this? Does anyone else have a suggestion for any other 8 ch unit that fits my space needs?

Exsultavit

* While inexpensive, the Mackie ($1000 USD) is used by at least one major symphony orchestra that I know of for both mic pre and conversion duties. I am willing to spend more (the True is $2,500 USD), but I am also willing to spend less...

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:09 pm

http://www.davelectronics.com/bg8.htm
http://www.arx.com.au/8pre.htm

The DAV is a very high quality amp and represents very good value for money.

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:16 pm

Thanks!

Have you a rough idea of the prices? I expect the DAV to be pricy...

Ex

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:18 am

I was about to recomend the BG8 when I saw that David had beat me to it! (Got 12 channels worth of BG pres, no #8 tho..)

in my small corner of the world it's got a recomended importers price of $3300 - what you pay on the street may be something quite diffrent!

Dunno what the price struture may be in the US!

/ptr

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:50 am

Are you thinking the Audient as the other one you couldn't remember?

The Trues (while not my personal favorite) are probably the best out of the lot for a universal sounding preamp.

The DAVs are wonderful as well, but if I had to choose just one out of the bunch, the True is a bit more transparent whereas the DAV is perhaps a tad euphoric and smoothing on many sources.

The Mackie is a great inexpensive choice. It's transparent but not near as open sounding as the Trues or the DAVs. They work well for hot/bright condensers (KM184s and CMC6 MK2h and MK2s). I wouldn't use the Mackies for ribbons as their last 10 dB of gain gets a tad noisey.

Cheers!

J.

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:07 pm

Thanks for all the info!

The Audient is not the brand I had forgotten- the one I am trying to remember is from Germany and is a bit pricey..

The Mackie interests me in part because it will allow me to try higher sample rates on smaller 8 channel projects. Also- if the clock interacts well with my system, it will also allow me expand my highest track count projects from my current limit of 24 trks to 32.

I am assuming that the more expensive units likely have better components and may sound better (they had better!!).

Also on my xmas list: Benchmark DAC1, and possibly a pair of 4011 DPA mics-- but only if I buy the less expensive preamps.... decisions, decisions...

Exsultavit

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:18 pm

http://www.jlmaudio.com/TMP8.htm ?

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:05 am

Markd102 wrote:

http://www.jlmaudio.com/TMP8.htm ?

Is 600 Ohm input impedance OK? Seems a bit low, especially for ribbons.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:07 am

Exsultavit wrote:

I am giving myself a Christmas gift rather than sending the $$ to Uncle Sam in April.

Want to dispense of some $$$? Buy a plane ticket to a remote place, enjoy it while it still exists, get some real 'air' and broaden your personal bandwidth.

But if you must spend your money on yet another inanimate lump of metal, plastic and silicone that allows you to do more of the same thing you already do, then perhaps wait a couple of months for the forthcoming Musik Messe and NAMM shows. New products are often released at those times.

Yours unhelpfully,

- Simmosonic

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:09 am

DavidSpearritt wrote:

Markd102 wrote:

http://www.jlmaudio.com/TMP8.htm ?

Is 600 Ohm input impedance OK? Seems a bit low, especially for ribbons.

Hmm, I'm not convinced about the specs on this unit. Not many pieces of gear currently available are designed solely for the 600 Ohm market. It could be that the 600 Ohm input impedance is either switchable or pertains to the line ins only, but not having used a TMP-8, I stand open to correction. As an additional comment, 60dB max gain is not really enough for ribbon mics.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:03 am

Boswell wrote:

As an additional comment, 60dB max gain is not really enough for ribbon mics.

I haven't really found this to be the case.

On full symphony or full chorus, I've gotten away (in most cases) with around 50dB of gain (even with chamber orchestra maybe 55dB)

On drums, anywhere between 25 and 40 dB

On chamber chorus (just did a 12 person a capella) 60 dB was just adequate.

On string quartet, 60dB worked fine

Jazz ensembles...45-50 depending upon the type of jazz and the use of the mic.

I suppose if the sourse were mighty quiet, I could see needing more gain, but I haven't encountered that yet. However, if recording at 24 bit, there's enough headroom to get you another 10 dB of gain if absolutely needed.

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:40 pm

I myself am not pleased with any 'soft limit' function that is always in place. I saw no way to defeat it.

The tax opportunity is over for '07, but I am still shopping. At this point, I am looking hard at the Mackie Onyx 800, and not only because it is less money. Several engineers have done a shoot-out between this and other, more expensive pres and found that the Onyx pres are sufficiently high quality to use alongside the more expensive units. I also like the chance to use the a/d and clock in it, which could lighten my load onsite if they are up to snuff. If all these are up to standard when I get the box, I'll use it and take that trip to a distant place for vacation with the $$$ I saved!

Or, return the Mackie and get something better.

I'll let you know when I've had a chance to put the Mack through it's paces.

Exsultavit

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:48 am

Exsultavit wrote:

I myself am not pleased with any 'soft limit' function that is always in place. I saw no way to defeat it.

Soft limit functions are only useful if a) they don't offer significant degradation; b) you know where the threshold is so you can keep your peaks just below it, making the limiter save your skin when it really needs saving; c) you can bypass them!

Exsultavit wrote:

At this point, I am looking hard at the Mackie Onyx 800, and not only because it is less money. Several engineers have done a shoot-out between this and other SNIP!!

Shoot out, schmoot out! Do your own, or you'll never know. I've seen too many shootouts where the cheaper alternative gets cut a lot more slack than the expensive alternative. That's human nature, of course. And I don't care who the engineers are, we are all subject to that kind of behaviour.

Having said that, I'd only have reservations about using the Onyx if it was going to be my main preamp/AD system for stereo miking. In that situation, the tonal character of the preamps and ADs becomes significant. But in augmenting a multimiking situation (as you seem to be suggesting), where you're using different brands of preamps and ADs, the contribution of each individual preamp and/or AD converter becomes less significant. The sound of the microphones themselves will be dominant...

I'd hate to spend a bucket load of $$$ on some additional high end preamps and/or converters, and then find that I only use them once in a blue moon. Get the Mackie and buy a plane ticket somewhere with the change...

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:48 am

I agree with Simmo-
I've used the Mackie 800R as auxilliary preamps on numerous rigs and never questioned the decision.

As for mains- only on "lesser" projects.

If it's in that back-seat role, I don't think you'll ever regret your decision.

J>

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:04 am

Just to be different, I wouldn't want to make a decision like this based on the first critea that you suggested, that it has to be a 1 rackspace unit. I would get the unit I wanted, and then if it turned out to be a 2 rack unit, figure out how jury rig the logistics.

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