Drumset Recording (First Timer)

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:00 am

Hi, I just finished mixing drums that I recorded for a friend of mine last week and wanted to see what you guys think. I've been checking out these forums for about a year now and have learned a lot already, but obviously I'm open to any critique. We had the guitarists and bass player record a scratch track before recording the drums then had the drummer play with the scratch track (as most people do). I used the following:

1-Shure Beta 52a on the Kick, front head removed
1-Shure SM57 on the Snare
2-Nady CM90's (against my better judgement, but it's all I had) in the World Famous "Recorderman" mic setup for overheads.

I definitely messed up on the snare. In hindsight, I think I should of spent more time with it and maybe even should of used a mic w/ inverted phase on the bottom head. I don't feel that this was a horrible first attempt at recording a kit, but clearly there's room for improvement. Anyway, thanks in advance for listening.

http://homepage.mac.com/freesignal
*It's the only MP3 on the page.

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:24 pm

good start! the snare sounds ok, i wouldnt worry about it.

i'd probably add some reverb to the snare once it's mixed in with the other instruments, but for a dry sound -- it's nice! i like low-end on snares.

any compression on any of the channels?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:27 pm

rockstardave wrote:

any compression on any of the channels?

Nope, just used EQ, and put a little reverb action on the 2 Overheads.

Thanks, I appreciate your response. I'll mess around with a bit of 'verb on the snare a little later.

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:21 pm

freesignal,

"We had the guitarists and bass player record a scratch track before recording the drums then had the drummer play with the scratch track (as most people do)." As most people do? I've never done that. Don't believe in that. Where did you get that one from? That's bad information.

When I record bands, everybody is in the room together, playing together, for basic tracking sessions. Yup, with all of the bleed. Good acoustics. Bad acoustics. No acoustics. Know acoustics. I don't care. Ever since I was shopping for a used Ampex 16 track in 1978. I went to New York City to Regent Sound and (the late) Bob Loftin led me into a control room that was tracking a band. This studio was rather small for this band of 5 members. No bigger than an average bedroom! It was so cramped in the studio, the singer had his back up against the control room window. As Bob was showing me the machine while tracking, I noticed the band sounded great! With all of the bleed in this tiny room, with everybody playing together. NO SEPARATION! Except in the recorded sound. It was truly amazing as that the singer sounded a lot like Robert Palmer. When I said that to Bob, he told me IT WAS Robert Palmer! All the while he was playing everything on the machine while it was in record mode! That one incident taught me a lot. If you want separation? See a lawyer.

Your drums don't sound bad they just don't sound great. The snare drum, not your fault. It's the drum & tuning. The snare drum is dead and lifeless, no snap just boing. Almost as bad as an old YES album. . God I hated that drum sound. Drove me crazy. Yes, the snare drum would have been further "enhanced" by putting a microphone on the bottom, inverse phased just to get a little more sound from the snare which was too tight. But it's not a good sounding drum. Good snare drums aren't cheap. Nor easy. But I am. One of us has to be.

World-famous recorderman? I never heard of him until I dropped in here @ Recording.org. I'd rather have my overheads at the same altitude and spread for the same time delays. Yes, you have to be a little more careful of placement by listening. Not by reading a magazine article and following the directions, in the magazine. Reverb won't help that snare drum. That's a good snare drum track to trigger a sample from however, which, I've never done either. I love my computer but not that much.

There is no fixing it in the mix. Just dealing with it. But that's why we make it sound good before we commit it to the recording. I've done a fair amount of live recording for radio/TV broadcast and CDs. Generally, quality instruments are used that are properly tuned. That makes all the difference. But I generally find myself with a SM 57 on top and a 57 or 81 (with mic pad on) on the bottom. But that's if it's a good sounding drum to begin with. Otherwise it's bad times two. If you really want a fat drum sound, try a Sennheiser MD421 on star drum. Hell! Put them on all the drums! You'll never looked back. Yes, bass drum also. Overheads? Sure. Great microphone! Love them on drums. I want five more. Oh yeah! So, you never thought about inverting the phase on the bass drum? Well you should try that. This is where the phase cancellation works for you. And you'll get a tighter, firmer low-end. Us gals really like that. The tighter low-end, on us or our partners that it is.

Tight low-end at 52.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Now go beat off again.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:57 pm

RemyRAD..... You Scare Me..... ALOT!!!!

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:09 pm

RemyRAD wrote:

And you'll get a tighter, firmer low-end. Us gals really like that. The tighter low-end, on us or our partners that it is.

Tight low-end at 52.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Now go beat off again.
Ms. Remy Ann David

Oooooohh! Say that again!! Sounds...so...right!

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:47 am

RemyRAD wrote:

"We had the guitarists and bass player record a scratch track before recording the drums then had the drummer play with the scratch track (as most people do)."

As most people do? I've never done that. Don't believe in that. Where did you get that one from? That's bad information.

Damn, I knew putting that in there would show my noob-hood. Unfortunately, I feel that doing it the way I did was better since the drummer was the tight-est member of the band and the guitarists are far from it. Although, who knows, I may just try an "All Together Now" take next time just for *RADIO EDIT* and giggles.

RemyRAD wrote:

World-famous recorderman? I never heard of him until I dropped in here @ Recording.org.

Look, you know, and I know: "If It's On YouTube, It's Famous." Wink

Hmmm, maybe I should trademark that phrase and sell it to YouTube..... Most people on YouTube feel that way..... By God, it just might work!

Anyway, thanks for the replies I truly appreciate your input.
-Patrick

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:54 am

@ RemyRAD:

Regarding "live" recordings like that, do you still have the band play to a click in case overdubbing is needed? Or do you just do any overdubbing by ear and have faith that it works out?

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:05 pm

StephenMC, of course the answer to that is yes & yes. I've worked with plenty of garage bands and it's rare with those to work with a click track. I have recorded large venue shows where the drummer was starting off against a click track for Bobby Caldwell. And right after he got into it, the headphones came right off. We've got a great shot of that at the beginning of one of the songs.

What I won't do for love
Ms. Remy Ann David

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:25 pm

I see. Thanks, Remy.

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:51 am

Quote:

Good snare drums aren't cheap. Nor easy. But I am. One of us has to be.

Remy...you can't make me laugh this hard while I'm at work. They'll find out I'm not working!

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:30 am

STOP LAUGHING! THERE'S NOTHING FUNNY ABOUT AUDIO, any more. I just don't understand why we have all of these cool effects but nobody uses them anymore?? At least I don't hear any own late-night television.

Dammit! I need a new vibrator.
Ms. Remy Ann David

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