can't get a good guitar tone in protools

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:58 pm

I need some help getting a decent tone in protools. I had one I really liked a week or so ago and I can't seem to find it again. I've been tweaking and tweaking and I just cant seem to get anything that impresses me yet. I'm looking for a modern hard rock tone....this is what i'm using.

mesa boogie triple rectifier, marshall 1960A cabinet, shure sm57.....

any suggestions for Eq'ing? I know recording requires much less gain than live but what else should be much different..I know follow my ears etc. but i'm having trouble finding anything I really like. help would be great.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:16 pm

I'm seriously not trying to be a butt-head to people on the board, so please don't take it that way. But, this topic and the question contained within makes me roll my eyes and die a little inside.

I'm going to make a statement in bold and caps. It's not that I'm yelling or pissed, I just want to emphasize one SERIOUSLY important point. Here goes:

YOU DO NOT EVER GET A GOOD TONE INSIDE A PIECE OF SOFTWARE. IF THE SOUND GOING TO TAPE OR HARD DRIVE IS NOT EXACTLY AS YOU WANT IT TO BE, YOU HAVE FAILED. START OVER AND GET THE SOUND RIGHT IN THE ROOM AND IN THE MIC.

Again - very sorry if it seems like I'm yelling - I'm not.

Do you like the sound you're getting in the room? In other words, while you're playing and listening (and I mean REALLY listening) do you actually hear the EXACT sound you want? If no, get it there. If yes, move on to the next step.

Now - place your microphone(s).

Now, listen through your cans or your monitors.

Are you hearing the desired result?

If yes, you are done, if no, move on to the next step.

MOVE THE MICROPHONE.

Find the spot where the microphone sounds good and then stop. You're done.

If you cannot get the sound you desire with a MB/Marshall and SM57, you're doing something VERY wrong.

Again, not meaning to be harsh - this is just the reality of it.

Cheers-
J.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:16 pm

This is difficult to answer, because "good" tone can mean many different things... even "modern hard rock" is pretty vague.

Also, I assume you are micing an actual amp, not using software emulation? If so, I think you should turn to protools (eq, etc) only after you have the best possible tone from your guitar, amp, and mic placement. Can you describe your setup/settings in more detail?

[edit] Jeremy beat me to it by a minute, and with more emphasis. Smile

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:26 pm

mwacoustic wrote:

[edit] Jeremy beat me to it by a minute, and with more emphasis. Smile

Emphasis? Where did I put emphasis??
Shocked

Hey look - we actually had the same answer...that means we're right, right??

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:43 pm

Well, it was a subtle kind of emphasis. I was reading between the lines.... Wink

And even if we were both wrong, 2 wrongs=1 right!

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:53 pm

pfactionbrett wrote:

I had one I really liked a week or so ago...

This may be a dumb question but do you have that one from last week saved with all your settings? If so, copy them. If not and the tone you liked a week ago was a result of your internal tweakings (eq, compression, efx, whatever) then it would be tough for me to know what you need. I don't know what your sound at the source is so I can't really recommend EQ settings.

+1 on Cucco's comments

I'd like to add, when moving the mic, make sure to try different speakers, position, distance and angle. They all can make a huge difference.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:05 pm

I'd like to add more emphasis.

What Jeremy said holds true for everything you put in front of a microphone.

There are countless threads on this site which pertain to mic placement, room, tone, gain structure, etc...

It all boils down to his post right here!

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:32 pm

I don't mean it by getting the tone inside the software, I mean listening to my tone while it's miced in my software. Sounds quite different than in the live room itself. I've moved the mic a million times and I just can't find what I want. I guess I need to be specific maybe a tone like Chevelle, or 10 years, not the ebst but the sound I want for the song.

I have it sounding good in the room, but miced up it sounds different no matter where the mic is not to mention double tracking it is going to sound different as well. I want to get it as close I can without using Eq plugins, only using those to fine tune.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:37 pm

Interesting.

Quote:

I had one I really liked a week or so ago and I can't seem to find it again.

How did you have it set up last week?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:37 pm

Quote:

Now - place your microphone(s).
Now, listen through your cans or your monitors.

I'm afraid that he plays and records in the same room.
If this is the case, I doubt he can monitor with any decent
quality even in cans - too much leaks in from playing.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:43 pm

well I can't get it how I had it due to mic placement, or slight changes in the EQ I guess, but also that's one tone I can't find any others I like. I don't want the same sound in every song.

yes in the same room but It's decently isolated, in a big closet type room, with a lot of padding and stuff stopping sound, I'm really not getting leaking much at all

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:54 pm

So you are hearing a huge difference between the sound you hear directly from the amp and the sound that an SM57 picks up and you hear played back through your monitors? Sounds like it could be problems with the acoustics in your room. How does it sound when you sing into the 57? Usually close micing the amp reduces the problems of room acoustics, but they can still be a problem during playback.

Did you get Amplitude or some other amp simulator with PT? Have you tried recording direct?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:00 pm

Hard lesson learned then. Always keep documentation. I used to have sheets printed out of console strips with the knobs and faders blanked out. Somebody, usually the second engineer or tape op, would go and mark all the settings. Even though it won't be exactly the same when you come in next time, you at least get in the ballpark.

I don't know if they still do this but at some studios they would charge for every knob and fader that wasn't zeroed when you left. So, maybe that doesn't apply in your own studio but documentation can save a lot of time if you can't leave things exactly as you left them.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:08 pm

I think it has to be the mic placement that's off. there's so many ways, off axis, center, edge of center, edge of cone, center cone etc.

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:38 pm

is the guitar not full enough? or what is the tone lacking that you want regained?

This topic sponsored by: