Home Studio construction products and design questions

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:44 am

Hoping someone out there can answer a few studio construction questions.
I have used the “Search” feature and was surprised nothing popped up. I also read “READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST” and searched again. I’m new at this, so I may have missed anything on the subject in question. If so, just point me in the right direction.

The situation:
Just purchased a home with basement space for a 2-room design -live room/control room. I’m in the planning/purchasing stage. We’re far enough away from neighbors to have a non-issue, but are close enough to the train to hear it rumble from time to time.
Two musicians in the family playing 3 types of music and various instruments – Heavy Metal/guitar, drums, practice space for that band plus a jazz band (same guys), and: a classical pianist/composer/vocalist that will be using the space. Vocal booth to be added later (we hope)

I have been on the Internet (came across this site), great info & dialogue, collected a few trade magazines & read one SUPER book, by Rod Gervias. Even had my sons’ music teacher come through the space for advise. I’ve gathered tons of product info.catalogues about constructing the space for optimum sound retention.

I’m not naïve enough to think I’ll contain the sound of a metal band in full practice, but hope to get as much as I can for a reasonable budget. After interviewing several contractors who didn’t have a clue and quoted big bucks, my husband, my 18yr old son – who will use the space the most,- & a carpenter friend we’ve used in the past, will do the construction. We also have an electrician and an HVAC guy so all that is done to code.

Any advise/response to my questions will help determine costs and possible options.

The space situation:
The house was built in the late 60s, originally w/electric heat (now converted to gas warm air) - lots of insulation stuffed everywhere. The existing ceiling in the space already is filled w/fiberglass insulation and has 5/8 sheetrock nailed to the joists above - not planning to remove that, but plan on adding another layer (or 2) of sheetrock, then build a second ceiling disconnected from that one as part of the room-within-a-room type of design.
The room is long and narrow – 11 feet wide and a total of 29 ft long with a ceiling height of 7’6” & typical cement floor –planning carpet on the floor. It’s a simple 2-room design. Planning an exterior door coming into the control room (9’x11’) at the front end/entry, then through that to a second door leading to the music room (20’X11’).

Question #1: Ceiling design/construction -

My solution for keeping the new ceiling separate while providing more stability for the weight of the sheet rock is the following:
In this “room-within-a-room” to keep the ceiling totally independent, I have discussed building/framing ceiling supports out of 12’ 2”x4” (using 2”x6”s as ceiling joists would drop the ceiling below 7’) / 16”oC on top of the inner wall structures, (ever built a house of cards?) but then for added support (prior to sheet rocking), we’d frame/build a soffit along the ceiling on a 45 degree angle around the perimeter, connecting the walls up to the new “independent” ceiling for support. (Kind of a “Dutch Colonial” roofline, if that helps) That would actually bring the span of the new ceiling to be sheet rocked to just 8 or 9 feet across and maintain the separation.

- Is this an OK design?
- Should I just use nailers and RC1/RC2 channels, clips and/or hangers on the existing ceiling and connect the layers of sheetrock to them instead?

I’m trying to keep the budget down since there are still many more components yet to come$$$$$$

Question #2: Wall design/construction materials:

Planning double wall construction for walls that are not up against the cement foundation (those walls exposed to the remaining living space in the lower level) and the control room structure with solid core exterior doors, laminated glass, etc. per Rods’ book.
The foundation walls will be built out w/2”x4”s, insulated w/fiberglass R19, finished with 5/8th sheet rock (do I need 2 layers here also?) and new windows installed for better heat/cold/sound insulation. This wall will also house a channel (PVC pipe) in the wall for mic & midi cable runs from the live music room to the control room. Later there will be time for added acoustical materials to improve sound quality on all of the surfaces.

- If I still need to connect the inner and outer walls and ceiling structures to each other for stability, which product does anyone suggest? & Where? WCI Clips, Sway Braces, Wall Braces, both for the ceiling support and for the stability of “connecting” the inner walls to the outer walls that get their stability from the ceiling joists?

I’d love to order the materials as soon as possible, but not before getting a little more info from some folks with more experience.

I hope I have followed the format for the forum and created a clear “picture” of what’s going on. I have design drawings to scale, but have not scanned them for digital sharing. Picture will be forthcoming…

We all very excited about the prospect of having a space to create and develop more great music!

Any constructive advice will be appreciated.
Thanks much.
Dee

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:03 am

Welcome to RO. I'm just another person who has read Rod's book, but the experts will be along shortly. In the meantime a few impressions and suggestions.

1. Reread the warnings about 3-leaf design in Rod's book. Sounds to me like that's what you ceiling plan would be. So it would be a lot of expense and work for not-too-much isolation.

2. My take from Rod's book is that isolation of old construction is a very tough business, and if you read this forum you will see lots of examples of people who went to lots of trouble and expense for very small results. I decided to do very little about isolation and learned to live within the constraints that imposed. For you that would involve memorizing the railroad timetable - but I think it would cost big bucks for you to ignore it.

3. If you decide that a real increase in isolation is absolutely necessary, plan carefully and get help. This board is great. You can hire people who actually know what they are doing to review your plans and point out your mistakes.

4. I urge you to rethink the idea of a control room and a vocal booth. You have one really nice sized space. What do you really gain by chopping it up. A 9X11 control room would be small to mix in. Won't you have times when the person hitting the record button will be one of the musicians? Buy the engineer a chair that doesn't squeak and let him/her sit with the musicians and keep his mouth shut.

Sounds like a very coool project. Good luck.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:33 pm

Thanks so much for your quick response.

I guess I'm an idealist at heart - and would love to have the space do it all.

My son & I have reviewed Rod's Pros & Cons on single vs. mulitple room spaces. He and I sort of disagree.

I am with you - one great space.

I think we could do a better job both in isolation and acoustics, from what I have learned in a very short time. and save money too. :>)

I have learned from past technical infrastucture projects that planning for growth and change is not to be taken lightly & could cost more if you don't.
This is where I think (perhaps a bit old fashioned)about the need to have a separate space for mixing.
If dividing the space later is not that big a deal, we could work with that, simplify this project and get to making music.
Perhaps more members in the forum will respond in a simalr way about the space design. Then he and I can discuss the changes and reasoning.

I plan on setting up a space where I can post the designs/photos for review to help woth the understanding.

Any thoughts on this Vinyl Barrier material?

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:53 pm

http://www.johnlsayers.com/

Here is a great website all about studio construction and design. Check out the forums, and read all the stickies. You can even call John for consultation over the phone for a fee. Hope this helps!

I also agree with the above post. Breaking that down that small would be a tiny control room. You could make it work, but its far from ideal. Could you maybe mix upstairs or something? Maybe run a snake and set up a temporary mix spot in the living room or some other room? Just a random idea.

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:45 pm

Yes, the more we've discussed the single room plan, the more we're convinced it's a better idea.

There is room to push the wall back another couple of feet, but would sacrifice some of the space we're planning for other activities and not sure the couple of feet would make that big a difference.

The John L Sayers site was where I started my research weeks ago. Great stuff to see. Wasn't sure how fresh it was when I looked at the dates of the postings, but got a good dose of what's what. Then I went in search of a book for guidance. Returned the first one - awful. Rod's book is the IT.

Today we pulled off the old paneling along the foundation. Surprise! large foundation crack that will have to be addressed.

I've read a few more postings and linked to some product sites regarding ceiling design installation.

Working on a spot to post the drawings and photos. Facebook? MySpace? or a blog spot...not sure yet, but I know it will help.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Cheers.
D

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:07 pm

Quote:

Working on a spot to post the drawings and photos. Facebook? MySpace? or a blog spot...not sure yet, but I know it will help.

Photobucket is quick and easy (and free!)...

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