Mic-Preamp compressor limiter? Singing Drummer w/wireless HS

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:27 pm

I am loving the dialog between you guys/gals! Good stuff!

The mic is a Sennheiser Ew100 G2 - ME3. The ME3 is the actual headset. I just noticed it doesn't have a pop cover on the mic as well. I noticed that ages ago but thought they had fixed it by now, right. NOT.

We just bought a pro co 100' snake 16/4 last night on Craig's list for $250. I am gonna see what I can do with the board on Friday at there gig. I will start with getting her a pop filter, adjusting her monitor and most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

I will start off with a 3/4 gain on the output of the Ew100 G2 then take it to the pre's on the board and see what levels work and using the pad.

I will keep my eye on the monitor placement as well. I will report back. I may have this band streaming live on Justin.tv very soon! (not Friday, though)

I have read the Modern Studio Recording Techniques book and I think this will be perfect to put my book knowledge into real life knowledge. I have produced some good recordings but this live stuff will be fun!

I want to hold off on extra gear if I can right now. I do need a pre-amp for the studio at sometime, my AW4416's pre's are weak so would the 286a be good for that to?

Thanks for all the discussion everyone! You have been a big help and have given me a lot to look for!

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:38 pm

BobRogers wrote:

bent wrote:

Quote:

We have a female singing into a Sennheiser wireless headset.

What model?

....Oh....You mean the mic.....

The female model is www.SonnyLeigh.com! Here is one of the songs she sings live. This was recorded in a studio, live, she sang into a sm-58 and did the drums at the same time.

Something to Talk About
www.myspace.com/coloradorockdoctors

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:42 pm

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:45 pm

Elijah said (once), I will now repeat

Quote:

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

It's like a mantra...

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:53 pm

Note that the ME3 is a hypercardioid. Make her aware of the pattern and the object of trying to keep a node of the pattern pointed toward the wedge. Actually, before you talk to her and make her self conscious look at her natural motions and think about how you position the wedge so that she never faces it directly (which would be good with a cardioid, but should be avoided with a hyper)

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:15 pm

Since she's a drummer, keep the wedge to her side (like BR recommended) or maybe even behind her.
I have fond that Full Rumpass, err, Full Compass gives by far the best deals on parts for that wireless. The MZW3-ew foam windscreen is $11.00 from Sennheiser. That same part is $6.98 from FC. I have to get these parts all the time, have shopped around, FC rocks for Sennheiser stuff, and keeps a lot it in stock. The ME3 is $220.00 from Sennheiser. $125.00 from FC. Sennheiser says that they don't want to sell the stuff directly. Duh!
I have a friend with a AW4416 and uses a 286a with it. It works well with it. The preamp isn't the best, but it's probably better than the Yammie's. The expander really helps pull the room out of the equation, especially if you're using an LDC mic. I'm trying to get another RO member to help figure out which chip (THAT vs. TI Burr-Brown) will work best in it. Also, the input impedance on the 286a is pretty low-1500 ohms- which makes it a good candidate for a ribbon.
Are you able to physically check out the ProCo snake before you hand over the cash? I hope so, and be thorough with the testing. It's very easy to damage a snake, and many bad ones have been sold on the internet.
All it takes is a single wheelchair rolled over a multicore with a foil shield to ruin it...Treat it gently, man.
Later.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:47 pm

BobRogers wrote:

Note that the ME3 is a hypercardioid. Make her aware of the pattern and the object of trying to keep a node of the pattern pointed toward the wedge. Actually, before you talk to her and make her self conscious look at her natural motions and think about how you position the wedge so that she never faces it directly (which would be good with a cardioid, but should be avoided with a hyper)

I am assuming that the wedge is the monitor.

So a hyper cardioid is like omni-directional almost then right?

Thanks

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:52 pm

moonbaby wrote:

Since she's a drummer, keep the wedge to her side (like BR recommended) or maybe even behind her.
I have fond that Full Rumpass, err, Full Compass gives by far the best deals on parts for that wireless. The MZW3-ew foam windscreen is $11.00 from Sennheiser. That same part is $6.98 from FC. I have to get these parts all the time, have shopped around, FC rocks for Sennheiser stuff, and keeps a lot it in stock. The ME3 is $220.00 from Sennheiser. $125.00 from FC. Sennheiser says that they don't want to sell the stuff directly. Duh!
I have a friend with a AW4416 and uses a 286a with it. It works well with it. The preamp isn't the best, but it's probably better than the Yammie's. The expander really helps pull the room out of the equation, especially if you're using an LDC mic. I'm trying to get another RO member to help figure out which chip (THAT vs. TI Burr-Brown) will work best in it. Also, the input impedance on the 286a is pretty low-1500 ohms- which makes it a good candidate for a ribbon.
Are you able to physically check out the ProCo snake before you hand over the cash? I hope so, and be thorough with the testing. It's very easy to damage a snake, and many bad ones have been sold on the internet.
All it takes is a single wheelchair rolled over a multicore with a foil shield to ruin it...Treat it gently, man.
Later.

Snake - The guy had bought it used before me and swore everything worked. I am going to test it tonight. He just used it for recording in the house. I looked at it before we bought it but didn't bring equip. to test with. It is in very nice condition. I had heard from reviews on musicians friend that the ProCo snakes are very very durable so lets hope they are!

I will order the windscreen from Full Compass if I can't find it locally.

Still learning about Ohms and such...

We use a tube SE 5500 in the studio and it is beautiful!

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:58 pm

bent wrote:

Elijah said (once), I will now repeat

Quote:

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

most importantly adjusting the gain properly.

It's like a mantra...

Nice sig!

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:06 pm

Elijah wrote:

BobRogers wrote:

Note that the ME3 is a hypercardioid. Make her aware of the pattern and the object of trying to keep a node of the pattern pointed toward the wedge. Actually, before you talk to her and make her self conscious look at her natural motions and think about how you position the wedge so that she never faces it directly (which would be good with a cardioid, but should be avoided with a hyper)

I am assuming that the wedge is the monitor.

Yes.

Quote:

So a hyper cardioid is like omni-directional almost then right?

No. There is a nod to the side. Scroll down here for a look at general pick up patterns. Check out the speck sheet on the M3 for your specific pattern.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:30 pm

BobRogers wrote:

Elijah wrote:

BobRogers wrote:

Note that the ME3 is a hypercardioid. Make her aware of the pattern and the object of trying to keep a node of the pattern pointed toward the wedge. Actually, before you talk to her and make her self conscious look at her natural motions and think about how you position the wedge so that she never faces it directly (which would be good with a cardioid, but should be avoided with a hyper)

I am assuming that the wedge is the monitor.

Yes.

Quote:

So a hyper cardioid is like omni-directional almost then right?

No. There is a nod to the side. Scroll down here for a look at general pick up patterns. Check out the speck sheet on the M3 for your specific pattern.

Got it. I see what the nod does now. Now, what is the application of the nod? To pick up the audience clapping if you are speaking?

Thanks for helping with that

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:06 pm

Sorry. My typo. I meant node or null - a place where little or no sound is picked up. The fact that a hypercardioid picks up sound in front is a bug not a feature in most live sound applications. The pesky laws of physics make it pretty hard to isolate a narrow range just at the business end of the mic that will pick up sound while sounds from all other angles are rejected.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:27 pm

Why is the node there though. The voice doesn't hit it even remotely. I mean I assume they make a normal cardioid as well. Why would one "want" a hypercardioid on a headset?

I must be missing something.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:43 pm

Here's a few reasons:

1) It has the most side to side, top to bottom rejection of unwanted sounds - more so than a standard cardiod pattern.

2) It doesn't pickup a whole lot from the rear, I mean, it's not an omni or figure 8, ya know.

3) The polar pattern is very tight - the expectation here is that the mic itself will not move away from the source (i.e. the mouth).

4) That's how they're made - they aren't the only mics that have that pattern, nor do all headset mics have only that pattern.

It all boils down to your needs - if you need a tight pattern with a lot of side rejection, hypercardiod's the way to go.

Etc...

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:01 pm

Ok so somehow that node in the side needs to be there. The node in the side doesn't usually pick up noise then. I am just wondering why it wouldn't be filled in.

Must be the design by the engineers then. It is a super-cardioid btw, which from what I gather is almost identical but just a bit better for this purpose. Sennheiser's website says it has "Excellent feedback rejection".

I am gathering they just have the wedge very improperly placed.

It is just confusing to me why there is a node on the side when it is supposed to reject side noise.

In my amature head it just would make more sense to have a cardioid if you wanted to not pick up side and back noise. I still have a lot to learn, this will all click soon. Thanks for taking the time to help!

I'm gonna go break out my recording book and stop asking dumb questions now.

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