Mac or PC the eternal debate....

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:48 pm

"They both have their uses"

Macs have a physical use ... at 9.8 m/sec squared.
That said PCs are heavier and make more of a dent.

The answers seem to vary depending on usage. Being a gamer, and casual sound guy, if you like, I use a PC and don't see the need for a mac and it's supposed stability.
Some of the pros here seem to swing with mac because it runs better out of the box.

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:26 pm

Codemonkey wrote:

Some of the pros here seem to swing with mac because it runs better out of the box.

When it's your job, isn't that what you would want? Or, would you rather spend time configuring your pc so that it will run the way you want it to?

Mac has always been dominant in media for that reason.

Things are changing. A properly configured PC will run well but you have to be willing to spend the time to ensure that all of your stuff jives. You still end up paying top dollar if you want the best performance and compatibility.

Macs were designed to be plug and play in the simplest sense. For many hardware interfaces there's not even a need for external drivers. Core Audio is already a capable low latency driver.

At any rate, it's difficult to give an educated opinion without having used both platforms for any reasonable period of time.

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:01 pm

Hey a Vancouverite! very nice my old stomping ground!

Quote:

That's not entirely true. If you look at the specs for a Mac Pro: Dual Quad, up to 32 GB of Ram, up to 4 Terrabytes of Hard Drive, built in wireless among many other features. Price this against an equally equipped ADK an you will find that the price skyrockets. The base model of the mac pro with Dual Quads, 320 Gig HD, and 2 Gigs of RAM is $2899. An equally equipped single Quad computer from ADK is $2051. So tack on a motherboard that supports dual quad and the additional chip and you pretty well have the same price.

Yes thats true but then you have to add in my new version of Nuendo 4, and my new VST's and wavelab( if I can get it for mac) it all comes out to about 6k.

Where as the other way wth a new PC I just need the box.

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:59 pm

Link555 wrote:

Hey a Vancouverite! very nice my old stomping ground!

That's funny. I used to live in Terrace. Yeah it ain't exactly Prince but it's in the same hemisphere.

As regards PCs. If your software is the motivator, definitely stick to your platform. All the power to you. I just hate seeing the bashing either way. I use PCs and have no problems. I use a Mac and have no problems. The bashing just gets a little childish.

Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:29 pm

In my pre audio recording days I was a Mac guy for four years. (Though I started on an IBM PC with a 4 digit serial number. Wink

) Matlab (which I was using heavily at the time) dropped the Mac platform for a while (has since returned to it) so I switched to PC.

In the old days I wanted to get into the guts of the machine. Somewhere in the late 80's - early 90's I decided that my goal was to know as little about the machine and the operating system as possible and concentrate on the high level languages that paid my salary. I'd be very happy to switch back to Mac at some point, but I don't see any big benefit at this point. I can do what Iwant in the PC world and don't see any point in paying the overhead to change.

I guess my thought is that you pay your money, make your choice, learn one operating system. Live with it. No tears.

Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:09 pm

Terrace, wow what a small cyber world!

I love Mac, but I been using PC for so long now its second nature I guess.

Like Bob I switch over to PC for school and work. And BTW I am a fan of MATLAB too. Most Engineering schools force PC's on the students one way or another. But anyway I guess the only way to stop that little voice in my head saying “Wouldn’t a Mac be nice” is to just buy one, and stop whining about it. Thanks guys

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:18 am

after 15 years windows-pc i switched to mac 6 month ago.
initially i never liked macs. i even tried to avoid them in college where i studied design.
then i got a job as graphic designer and had to deal with them. after 2 weeks i loved working on a mac.
now i know why at first i didn't like macs. cause i didn't know how they work. i knew windows by heart but couldn't find my way on a mac.

now i got a macbook pro and it's great. it just works as it should. of course it crashes sometimes too, but it's no comparison to a windows-pc. i can't count how often i had to reinstall windows, how often i had to tweak the system, how often i had to shut it down after installing software, how often it just shut down by itself...
now when i have to use a windows program, i start my mac with windows. or even better, i can run windows inside macosx. i can use both on one machine.

i'm not saying pcs are not good. a cleanly installed windows pc can also work very good and will get your work done. but it's so much easier with a mac. i could have bought a similar windows notebook for less money, but i've never regretted switching. especially after trying vista!!!

just my 1.3 eurocents...

Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:01 am

Codemonkey wrote:

Personally: Never have anything to do with a mac in the first place Wink

I just never liked them, or anything about them.

Whereas Windows, with a bit of time, can be made to run exactly how I want it.
And plus, if I want to take a screwdriver to my case, and upgrade my graphics card to play Crysis, I can.
With a mac, I don't even get a place to put my screwdriver into (except through the screen)

Whereas Macs....run exactly how I want them. And plus, I don't need a case so...

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:34 am

You don't need a case?

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:00 pm

Like Remy, I build my own PC's and I really have no problems at all. There are even modified versions of XP (Mad Edition) specifically tailored for the audio / video crowd. I like the PC for the available software aspect, which is also the only reason I haven't switched to Linux.

However... doesn't the Mac Pro dual boot into XP as well? I've also heard of people running OSX on intel based PC's, but I think it's still probably in the beta stages and not very versitile.

Ahh, get a Tyan Thunder, 4 quad core CPU's and 64 gigs of ram. Then record all of your audio to a striped raid array. That shouldn't go obsolete any time soon. Smile

http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=554

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:00 am

BrianaW wrote:

... There are even modified versions of XP (Mad Edition) specifically tailored for the audio / video crowd. ...

can you give a quick run down on this one ?
where can I see / get ?
how geeky do you need to be to get an advantage ... etc

I'm a bit lazy to go for a google
and
others might also be interested in a quick unbiased review

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:13 am

Link555 wrote:

You don't need a case?

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:13 pm

Well my question is answered I just bought a new PC from ADK. First time I have been able to afford to have someone else build my PC for me. I have mixed feelings about that, but what the heck, it's good to try everything at least once.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:38 pm

Link,
Good choice! Having your PC built custom for you is definitely the way to go! There are so many problems with these "out of the box" systems I can't even begin to describe. Having your own made bypasses all of the other options specifically built-in to please EVERYONE. Not to mention it will make upgrading components MUCH easier. I'm going through that right now with a friend of mine. He has a Gateway and has to upgrade his power supply to work with his new video card. The trouble is, the case will only fit a specific power supply that only goes up to a certain wattage... ahhh... time to break out the dremel. Anyway, glad to hear you are happy! Post some pics when you get it!

Kev,
I haven't been able to find anything about this edition using the search engines, but I can tell you a little bit about it and where I acquired it. This should probably be it's own post, but I'm too insecure to do that.

It's called "Windows XP Mad Edition" and I got it directly from the author who originally posted it on Demonoid. Mmmm, Demonoid... doesn't that word remind you of Grandma's house and the smell of freshly baked apple pie? The entire OS fits on a single CDR at 141 MB (as opposed to my XP Pro disc which uses 488 MB), that should give you some idea of how much has actually been removed in this custom edition. If you were to Google "XP audio performance tweak" you'd find a few sites which give you numerous tips on how to enhance your Windows installation to run quicker and more effectively for use with audio/video workstations. These can take the form of registry edits, disabling certain graphical components (the flash), customizing processes set to run at boot time (the Black Viper Services Companion is great for this - http://www.blackviper.com/ ), uninstalling certain portions of the OS, and basically just turning off all of the stuff that's set on by default in XP so that everyone can do anything plug and play. We as audio workstation owners have more specialized needs and a lot of these extra processes are just wasting memory and CPU cycles. Does everyone already know this stuff? Smile

Anyway, Mad edition does away with all of these extra odds and ends by way of excluding them from the installation disk itself.

Some examples would be:

All graphical enhancements are disabled and tabs and options for this are unavailable (looks more like XP set to classic Windows like mine and Remy's). This greatly improves processing speed.

Various registry keys have been added/subtracted to prohibit certain processes including prefetching, irq prioritizing, incorrect CPU L2 cache detection, poor RAM and disk cache sizing, and slow USB timing just to name a few. The list goes on and you can probably find them all on one of the audio tweaks sites (I've done this manually many times).

Various startup processes have been removed completely. This means default Windows drivers. For example, why have the Netmeeting Remote Desktop Sharing service running if you never use Netmeeting? Some of these services can even pose as security threats, like Remote Registry. Gone in this edition.

Some other .exe type stuff has been taken out such as Windows Messenger, Windows Media Player, MSN Gaming Zone, Windows Movie Maker, and just basically most of the bloatware that's included in XP that a lot of people don't even use. I use MPC to play video, which is a modded version of WMP 6. It's smaller, faster, uses less resources, and has more options.

Overall, it's a faster, tighter work space. Although a lot of the functionality has been removed, you can still surf the web, and I think print docs. I don't print track sheets usually so I haven't tried, but I do think the print spooler is in there.

Disadvantages range from no System Restore, to no pretty shiny flashy stuff, to many tabs for customization completely removed due to their key processes being unavailable. It might not be good for systems with multifunction purposes... like gaming systems (I'm not really a gamer so I haven't tried it), or just the all around living room system. Also, it is technically an independently modified version, so you probably wouldn't get any support from Microsoft (although it does come bundled with modded SP's 1 and 2) if you know what I mean. Also, I got this about 2 or 3 years ago, so I'm not sure what kind of new hardware support it has (quad core's for example). It does however perform it's duties as a enhanced audio/video workstation OS quite well... and I have not noticed any buggyness with my hardware config.

You other question was "How geeky?"... why? Do I sound geeky? Wink

This edition was created so you don't have to get all geeky. It does all of these things on it's own so no technical knowledge is necessary. It does help to know what type of barebones OS it is tho... so you don't end up freaking out wondering where your wallpaper options went. It also makes the OS installation a lot less work even for the nerds because performing these tweaks manually afterward is what takes all of the time... that and installing and organizing all of your VST's... man, I HATE doing that!

Ahhh, to bottom line it... it's a homemade barebones version of Windoze that runs faster 'cause there's a lot of sh*t missin'. Smile

K, I'm going to go make a sandwich now.

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:13 pm

My views on it.

(PS. I don't like MAC of personal reasons)

I've used both Mac with pro tools/Logic and PC with Cubase/Nuendo.

I have the distinct feeling that both machines does the job equally satisfying. Noone have the advantage anymore if you ask me.

Another factor for me tow is the base, the GUI.

When you get a new MAC the GUI is OK, and you can navigate with ease. I feel still no PRO feelings tow.
Windows is a hole nother story. When you first run Windows, whatever version, it treats you like a freakin idiot!.
So 'out of the box' MAC is better.

BUT! If you like to confing and tweaking the PC, Windows is the winner.
My XP computers (not laptops) draws down to 60MB of ram after boot, before anyprograms are started. ALL the resources are ready to serve my audio needs.

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