kick drum click on metal drums

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:04 am

Hey guys, been a while since iv been on here. Iv been doing a bit more recording since last on and they were mostly metal bands. The problem iv been having most was on the kick drum, I cant get that slapping click like on most metal drums like from bands like fear factory, strapping young lad, shadows fall ect...
I use an AKG D112 into an FP10 and into cubase. placing the mic about an inch in or the drum skin distance and aimed at where the pedal hits. even after EQ i cant seem to get the right sound, i boost around 5k and cut up to 80hz.
i know its a simple thing and messing around with mic positions will probably give me the answer but i was hoping there might be something else ye might be able to help with.
thx

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:17 am

A cool trick I'll do is to copy the kik to a new track and roll off the low end then run it through a distortion plug-in. It's cheating, I know, but I like it.

You should also experiment with different mics including a second one on the beater side.

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:43 am

hmmmm - WWJD (What Would Joshua Do?)

My.02 would be:
THE DRUM
A smaller kik 20" or 22" works best for getting a tight sound. Also try more padding inside the kik to get less shell sound

MIC CHOICE
The D112 tends to be a fairly wide cardiod, and picks up a lot of the shell.
A more clik sound can be had from using a hypercardiod mic.
My fav is the AT25, (same price range as the D112) but there are others. Also a Neumann U47 will also work quite well.

GADGETS
Then there's the clikpad option. This is a plastic pad that sticks to the head where the beater hits. (a variation of this technique is to tape a quarter to the head)
I once had a drummer that came in with a big piece of plexiglass about 8" square taped to the head. We got PLENTY of clik. And that's about all we got.
Oh- there's also harder beaters, some are made of plastic or wood instead of the big fluffy kind.

TUNING
Interestingly the lower you tune the drum the more clik you will get. You would think it should be the other way around, but not so.

LAST RESORT
IF all else fails, you could try replacing (triggering) the kik. Look around this forum. there should be another post with detailed instructions.

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:52 am

ya some of those seem to be a good options that i could try. more padding actualy might work and the doubleing too.
thx

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:07 am

We got into it a little more in this thread:
http://www.recording.org/ftopict-44798.html

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:10 am

Get the mic inside the bass drum, pointed at or close to where the beater hits the skin. Also, you might want to try a mic like an Audix D6.

Don't be afraid to scoop the lower mids out a bunch so that you're left with the deeper bass information and the ~4kHz click.

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:27 am

I love the reference to sound waves and frequencies as "Information"
So Soundclick is just Google but with noise instead of words?

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:58 am

?

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:04 pm

danbronson said:
"the deeper bass information"
The reference to information clicked a comparison of Google (web information finder) to Soundclick (storage of much sound, being compared to information)

Heard of waveforms, mp3s, sound files, serially sampled amplitude storage, but never information...

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:08 pm

Ah, I glossed over that and thought there was something wrong with the link I posted (the kik samples are posted on Soundclick.com).

Scared me for a second!

Laughing

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:13 pm

Yeah, I was wondering where codemonkey was going with that as well.
'Information' is a reletively common term. Also 'component' is slightly less used but is one of my favs.
Perhaps it's a regional thing.

Another tip for clik on kik- Don't over compress. Actually, if you get it set right at the source, you probably won't need any compression at all.

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:45 pm

I'm thinking about it digitally, so considering it's all 1s and 0s, I think referring to it as "information" is okay. I've heard the term used a million times before anyway, I just kinda say it without thinking about it now.

But yeah, now that I think about it, using the term "information" seems a bit weird, doesn't it? What would you call it instead?

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:09 pm

"They green lines on ma screen." ?

Data comes to mind although data <=> information...
Usually I refer to things as audio tracks or blocks.

Odd one really. Waveform I think is my favourite though. Or, in all essence of originality, "sound!"

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:20 pm

You're never going to get the klick with the mic at the front of the kik drum even just inside the front head. It has to get upclose and personal at the point of contact.

I get my AT25 all the way in, about 6" from the contact point of the beater. Then I angle it down at about a 35 to 45 degree angle to the point but at the same heighth. I use a very small but heavy pillow. Its almost like a sand bag in weight. It touches the head ONLY if theres an obnoxious ring that cannot be tuned out.

I use a dead ring inside the batter head as well as the front head or I take the front head off.

Heres another 'cheaterlike' way to get that big click.

Keep yer D112 basketball sounding mic at the front head as always.

Put an SM57 right at the contact point......3" give or take an inch or two.. Point it slightly off axis.You dont want it to flatten the diaphram at impact!!!

Put this mic on its own track. Gate it to open only on impact. Practice with it as you search your gates' open point as a LOT of drummers will have that light kik every so often that always screws up the track.
Leave open only for the count of the most predominant beat in each measure....be it quarters, sixteenths, what-have -you.......COMPRESS THE HOLY CRAPOLLY outta this mic. Limit its ability to ever distort your proceedings. Fast in fast out. Shut that sucker down with each swat. EQ out the low frequencies. Anything below 180-200hz. Gone.

Hard edge click....to do what you want with it.

Its SO frikkin easy with all these tracks available these days....We used to have to sub-mix or decide whether it was worth it to add stuff like this.

It was all about planning the tracks out before pushing the red button.

Back in the day when we had a big assed drum kit in and the double bass magic going on, this is where I would put the MD409's. Right up on the batter head from the beater side right next to the pedals. They're small and square and they only pick up things right in their immediate proximity............PERFECT. Then we'd stick a couple of D20's right in front of the kik drums......Most of these kits had the Cannon Sized kiks...A couple of U87's as overheads and SM81's on all the toms....(sometimes up inside concert toms!!!)Beyer 201's on the snare top and a Beyer 422 under.....Instant thunder.

You had to be sure of your gain staging. And your phasing with a bunch of live mics like that.

Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:51 am

Cool approach. I'll be trying that, thanks. I've heard a few recordings where the drummer's most powerful kicks were accompanied by more click than I was expecting, perhaps they were using this trick or something similar.

If the drummer has complex patterns or the occasional double bass part that sticks out, you may want to automate the SM57 track to always be on during those important parts.

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